New Beta Version - April 17th (4-17)

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It's happened several times that the AI offers a deal to me with no items in it. Twice in one game an AI asked me to vote for something, but there was nothing either of us was giving, and they didn't have a diplomat in my capital. So I assume they "thought" of the deal and then moved their diplomat? But I can't be sure. In another game an AI asked me for a resource and it was the same, nothing in either deal box thing. Not sure if this is the same bug as the one you're talking about but it is similar.
 
InkAxis said:
It's happened several times that the AI offers a deal to me with no items in it. Twice in one game an AI asked me to vote for something, but there was nothing either of us was giving, and they didn't have a diplomat in my capital. So I assume they "thought" of the deal and then moved their diplomat? But I can't be sure. In another game an AI asked me for a resource and it was the same, nothing in either deal box thing. Not sure if this is the same bug as the one you're talking about but it is similar.
Click to expand...
I had the same bug but assumed it was a memory issue. I restarted the game and reloaded from previous turn and then I could see the deal items. Maybe that's the cause of your issue.
 
Zuizgond said:
I had the same bug but assumed it was a memory issue. I restarted the game and reloaded from previous turn and then I could see the deal items. Maybe that's the cause of your issue.
Click to expand...
Well when I hit "propose" or whatever the button is to accept the deal, they wouldn't accept, so I think it's more than just me not seeing the items in the deal.

I'll try to find a save if I can and post it to GitHub.

Edit: I thought I had the save but turns out I didn't. If it happens again to me then I'll post a bug report.
 
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InkAxis said:
Well when I hit "propose" or whatever the button is to accept the deal, they wouldn't accept, so I think it's more than just me not seeing the items in the deal.

I'll try to find a save if I can and post it to GitHub.
Click to expand...
An empty peace deal even without 10 turns of peace treaty.
Happened a couple of times.
 
What changed with the Happiness?

I settled 3 cities and I'm already below 50% happiness :((
 
ElmerGG said:
What changed with the Happiness?

I settled 3 cities and I'm already below 50% happiness :((
Click to expand...

Settler spam is a lot more difficult now, you can't overexpand too early.
 
yeah i just noticed. Been playing the stable ver for over a year and this beta have so much changes it's pratically a new dlc.

Meanwhile playing on a duel map with kameha was amusing. He's literally spamming cities with seemingly no hits on happiness.
 
ElmerGG said:
yeah i just noticed. Been playing the stable ver for over a year and this beta have so much changes it's pratically a new dlc.

Meanwhile playing on a duel map with kameha was amusing. He's literally spamming cities with seemingly no hits on happiness.
Click to expand...
It should be quite easy to recover from the early happiness hit.
 
I don't know if this would be considered working as intended re: diplo ai, but i'm into the early industrial on 4-17, I fought a single 1500 year war against carthage through part of ancient and classical era, and have otherwise been pretty good to all AI's, often agreeing to gift deals and deliberately avoiding settling in controversial regions (including a 4-iron-and-multiple-bonus-resource-tundra location that no one wants to claim). Anyway the war was well justified... carthage forward settled my capital with two separate 3 distance cities, and did same to one of my already-densely packed satellites, despite relatively poor resource locations for each of their choices (they were critical naval access locations though, so no worries about the AI decision making itself)... I acquiesced to this cuz i had no plans for those locations, and had already claimed the important tiles nearby, and most importantly dido had already spread her religion throughout the continent, leaving me and maya (other religion founder) as minority followers of the only regional alternative. Despite religious differences i was friends with everyone early on... but then dido (the early runaway overall) attacked my best buds maya...

The war AI performed admirably in the long drawn out war that followed, at times inflicted surprising losses, but I had a strong progress tech and building pace going and was able to outpace war weariness and eventually overwhelmed dido's defenses. in the meantime, all the other followers of carthage's religion became less friendly towards me, and maya had lost 2 of 4 cities to dido, all of its army, and its capital was down to half health. Initially I had had to focus on the forward settlements due to the strategic obstructions they posed, razing all of them and liberating 2-3 maya workers as i went. My best buds maya loved me even more despite the hardship they faced. I arrived just in time to save their capital, then went on to liberate their other two cities, though it wasn't quick work with all of these on the coast and many recaptures.

Finally, over a millenia later, the mayans saved and hostile encroachments eliminated, I marched on dido's capital/holy city. After hundreds of years more of siege there, I captured it, and instantly turned my world upside down... as the new 'founder' of carthage's religion, the rest of the continent now loved me again, and pacal immediately ended our long-standing bromance with little explanation. A short while later he denounced me... me, the savior of mayan sovereignty! Didn't matter that the same turn I captured carthage, I had an inquisitor ready and eradicated the religion entirely from my newly joined populace (I also cleansed the other minority followers in my cities on same turn). After rebuilding some faith, I also converted my now-vassal dido's other cities to maya's religion, and over a long time with its opposition neutralized, maya was able to turn the tide throughout the continent. Though I enjoyed the diplo benefit from the followers of carthage's religion early on after its capture, now that most of the others have changed religions, I am the continental pariah, unable to make friends with anyone, despite not one follower of this state religion anywhere in my cities. Also, carthage itself has become a forever-starving 1-citizen city no matter what I do, though my relationship with dido has improved sufficiently that I'll be returning it to her soon.

Anyway, TLDR would be nice to have a reprieve from religious diplo penalties if there are no followers anywhere in our civ of the religion we're falsely alleged to be the founder of
 
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Tekamthi said:
I don't know if this would be considered working as intended re: diplo ai, but i'm into the early industrial on 4-17, I fought a single 1500 year war against carthage through part of ancient and classical era, and have otherwise been pretty good to all AI's, often agreeing to gift deals and deliberately avoiding settling in controversial regions (including a 4-iron-and-multiple-bonus-resource-tundra location that no one wants to claim). Anyway the war was well justified... carthage forward settled my capital with two separate 3 distance cities, and did same to one of my already-densely packed satellites, despite relatively poor resource locations for each of their choices (they were critical naval access locations though, so no worries about the AI decision making itself)... I acquiesced to this cuz i had no plans for those locations, and had already claimed the important tiles nearby, and most importantly dido had already spread her religion throughout the continent, leaving me and maya (other religion founder) as minority followers of the only regional alternative. Despite religious differences i was friends with everyone early on... but then dido (the early runaway overall) attacked my best buds maya...

The war AI performed admirably in the long drawn out war that followed, at times inflicted surprising losses, but I had a strong progress tech and building pace going and was able to outpace war weariness and eventually overwhelmed dido's defenses. in the meantime, all the other followers of carthage's religion became less friendly towards me, and maya had lost 2 of 4 cities to dido, all of its army, and its capital was down to half health. Initially I had had to focus on the forward settlements due to the strategic obstructions they posed, razing all of them and liberating 2-3 maya workers as i went. My best buds maya loved me even more despite the hardship they faced. I arrived just in time to save their capital, then went on to liberate their other two cities, though it wasn't quick work with all of these on the coast and many recaptures.

Finally, over a millenia later, the mayans saved and hostile encroachments eliminated, I marched on dido's capital/holy city. After hundreds of years more of siege there, I captured it, and instantly turned my world upside down... as the new 'founder' of carthage's religion, the rest of the continent now loved me again, and pacal immediately ended our long-standing bromance with little explanation. A short while later he denounced me... me, the savior of mayan sovereignty! Didn't matter that the same turn I captured carthage, I had an inquisitor ready and eradicated the religion entirely from my newly joined populace (I also cleansed the other minority followers in my cities on same turn). After rebuilding some faith, I also converted my now-vassal dido's other cities to maya's religion, and over a long time with its opposition neutralized, maya was able to turn the tide throughout the continent. Though I enjoyed the diplo benefit from the followers of carthage's religion early on after its capture, now that most of the others have changed religions, I am the continental pariah, unable to make friends with anyone, despite not one follower of this state religion anywhere in my cities. Also, carthage itself has become a forever-starving 1-citizen city no matter what I do, though my relationship with dido has improved sufficiently that I'll be returning it to her soon.

Anyway, TLDR would be nice to have a reprieve from religious diplo penalties if there are no followers anywhere in our civ of the religion we're falsely alleged to be the founder of
Click to expand...

It isn't a bug, but I can see the problem with that behavior. Will look at improving this logic.
 
Recursive said:
It isn't a bug, but I can see the problem with that behavior. Will look at improving this logic.
Click to expand...

thanks! i imagine it could be handled very simply via some kind of 'if player.foundedfollowers = 0 then k * normalreligiousdiplopenalty', k being some mitigating multiplier less than 1, possibly 0. alternatively maybe there's no diplo changes needed and simply once followers = 0 then player switches to other majority religion.. maybe this would make it impossible to save a near dead religion though, not sure...

the overall mechanism of being forced to have this religion from a captured holy city is a little gamey feeling but I think this has been discussed before and seems acceptable.. I had thought I could mitigate it with a quick inquisition, and even the forever-resistance in the holy city is okay in this admittedly uncommon path I have chosen, but the diplo results have really skewed the game in the opposite direction from expected and there's little I can do
 
Perhaps asking if the player wants to adopt the religion when they conquer a founding city? Could also have an effect if they don't too, like a diplomatic penalty from civs following that religion, along with a happiness penalty to those civs.
 
@Tekamthi Upcoming diplomacy changes for next version:
Code: 
Fixed a bug causing the diplo bonus for liberating cities to persist if you declare war or capture cities from a civ (declaring war through a Defensive Pact/vassalage still doesn't count)

Fixed a bug in the approach calculation causing the AI to use a religion-based weight instead of an ideology-based weight in the late game

If none of your own cities are following your own religion, you will get no diplo bonuses or penalties for same/different religions with other civs
- Unless you have a diplo penalty for converting their cities (in which case penalties will apply normally)

Liberating a civ's capital or resurrecting them now grants immunity from diplo penalties for differing religions, ideologies, and Social Policies
 - For approach, if you have a coop war "soon" against another civ or liberated one of their cities in the past 20 turns, temporary immunity is granted
 - This immunity is revoked if they consider you a backstabber or (of course) if you're at war with them
 - The immunity for religion is revoked if you have a penalty for converting their cities
 - The immunity for ideology is revoked if the Cold War resolution is active and the AI player is prevented from trading with at least one other civ because of it

Halved global politics weight for religious/ideological similarities or differences with allies & foes (was too high)

AI now permanently tracks if you've ever captured their capital or Holy City, even if you give it back to them (trading for it with another civ does not count)
- The opinion penalty is persistent even if the city is returned or if a Holy City is reset with an Inquisitor
- If the city is returned to them (or in the case of a Holy City, if they get a new one) their aggression is reduced and the opinion penalty is halved, stacking with the reduction if they're your capitulated vassal
- You no longer get an opinion bonus for shared religion with your vassal if you've captured their Holy City (unless you've returned it to them or they obtained another one)
- These permanent penalties are cleared if you later resurrect the civ

Hope you enjoy! :)

As always, you can discuss all things diplomacy-related in the dedicated thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/diplomacy-ai-development.655040/

EDIT: Additional improvements.
Code: 
More bugfixes

Barbarians will no longer spawn from razing cities if "No Barbarians" is enabled

Improvements to linked military AI logic
- AI better able to identify diplomatic dangers and is more likely to guard against threats and build additional units as needed
- Among other factors, declaring war on them and capturing cities from them is remembered and marks you as a potential threat

Opinion modifier table will now display an indicator when the AI considers you a backstabber
- "We are completely untrustworthy to them."
- While this modifier is present, the AI will never adopt the FRIENDLY approach and you will experience a lot more hostility from them
- Helps the player understand when they've crossed the line with a particular AI and when they've been forgiven

Added two explanation "modifiers" for the NEUTRAL approach, one for when the AI is acting hostile (which is not the same as the HOSTILE approach) and one for when they're not
- NEUTRAL was the only approach without an explanation, so that's now remedied
 
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A Barbarian Brute just attacked into my city from the water; doesn't seem intended?
Spoiler :
A8DE6bA.jpg

(The Spearman was not in the city when the Brute attacked, so the city had 5 CS at the time.)
 
Hello everyone! I love all the implementations and improvements to the mod, but when do you think we can enjoy them? Thank you!

Recursive said:
@Tekamthi Upcoming diplomacy changes for next version:
Code: 
Fixed a bug causing the diplo bonus for liberating cities to persist if you declare war or capture cities from a civ (declaring war through a Defensive Pact/vassalage still doesn't count)

Fixed a bug in the approach calculation causing the AI to use a religion-based weight instead of an ideology-based weight in the late game

If none of your own cities are following your own religion, you will get no diplo bonuses or penalties for same/different religions with other civs
- Unless you have a diplo penalty for converting their cities (in which case penalties will apply normally)

Liberating a civ's capital or resurrecting them now grants immunity from diplo penalties for differing religions, ideologies, and Social Policies
 - For approach, if you have a coop war "soon" against another civ or liberated one of their cities in the past 20 turns, temporary immunity is granted
 - This immunity is revoked if they consider you a backstabber or (of course) if you're at war with them
 - The immunity for religion is revoked if you have a penalty for converting their cities
 - The immunity for ideology is revoked if the Cold War resolution is active and the AI player is prevented from trading with at least one other civ because of it

Halved global politics weight for religious/ideological similarities or differences with allies & foes (was too high)

AI now permanently tracks if you've ever captured their capital or Holy City, even if you give it back to them (trading for it with another civ does not count)
- The opinion penalty is persistent even if the city is returned or if a Holy City is reset with an Inquisitor
- If the city is returned to them (or in the case of a Holy City, if they get a new one) their aggression is reduced and the opinion penalty is halved, stacking with the reduction if they're your capitulated vassal
- You no longer get an opinion bonus for shared religion with your vassal if you've captured their Holy City (unless you've returned it to them or they obtained another one)
- These permanent penalties are cleared if you later resurrect the civ

Hope you enjoy! :)

As always, you can discuss all things diplomacy-related in the dedicated thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/diplomacy-ai-development.655040/

EDIT: Additional improvements.
Code: 
More bugfixes

Barbarians will no longer spawn from razing cities if "No Barbarians" is enabled

Improvements to linked military AI logic
- AI better able to identify diplomatic dangers and is more likely to guard against threats and build additional units as needed
- Among other factors, declaring war on them and capturing cities from them is remembered and marks you as a potential threat

Opinion modifier table will now display an indicator when the AI considers you a backstabber
- "We are completely untrustworthy to them."
- While this modifier is present, the AI will never adopt the FRIENDLY approach and you will experience a lot more hostility from them
- Helps the player understand when they've crossed the line with a particular AI and when they've been forgiven

Added two explanation "modifiers" for the NEUTRAL approach, one for when the AI is acting hostile (which is not the same as the HOSTILE approach) and one for when they're not
- NEUTRAL was the only approach without an explanation, so that's now remedied
Click to expand...
 
Enjoy post-turn 500 tile p0rn! (reported on Github)
84596634-7f73ae00-ae91-11ea-8dc0-4413df4b3cd5.png

84596832-84852d00-ae92-11ea-804d-12bceaf386ee.png

upload_2020-6-14_23-7-41.png
 
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