New Beta Version - August 21st (8-21b)

[Bhawb]

Rome's kit is geared towards taking cities, so why not swap Cover II with Drill I on the Legion instead, like James pointed out above?

This is precisely why I dislike Alhambra giving Drill I, that promotion is a huge feels-bad for anything pre-Alhambra. But I actually think Rome getting Cover II is fine, Cover fits with Pilum better.

 

[JamesNinelives]

This is precisely why I dislike Alhambra giving Drill I, that promotion is a huge feels-bad for anything pre-Alhambra. But I actually think Rome getting Cover II is fine, Cover fits with Pilum better.

Alhambra seems like it would fit well with a unique promotion, like the one G suggested for Swords originally (although it doesn't have to be that one specifically). I understand that does require a new promotion icon which is extra work. I wonder if there is a less-used promotion that Alhambra could give instead without it being unbalanced? Like a bonus to gaining experience, or to generating GGs. I never build Alhambra myself though, so I'm not sure what would suit.

That said, promotions are a bit of a difficult thing to sort out in general. Ethiopia's Mehal Safari for example recieve cover already so upgrading swords to (eventually) Mehal Safari could be a bit disappointing. It may be necessary to accept a certain amount of overlap though. Ideally between things that are available in eras some time apart from each other.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

I wonder if there is a less-used promotion that Alhambra could give instead without it being unbalanced? Like a bonus to gaining experience, or to generating GGs. I never build Alhambra myself though, so I'm not sure what would suit.

I'll point this out again, but when does anybody ever give their units City Assault? I guarantee this promotion is rarely used. Even with Drill III, melee units attacking castled cities are basically committing suicide a lot of the time, and they don't compare to the efficiency of siege units. It makes no sense that once you build the Authority finisher, you can't really utilize it properly. It currently just serves as quick access to Blitz, which is nice, but Alhambra granting City Assault allows melee units to continue attacking castled cities throughout Medieval and Renaissance, plus doesn't waste a promo for the majority of my army which hopefully already has the Drill line filled out.

My proposal:

• Swords get Cover I
• Legion get Cover I + Drill I to synergize with Roman UA (I fear Cover II makes them too formidable out of the gate)
• Alhambra grants City Assault

 

[Hardstyle]

Hello guys, I'm having a weird bug with " (1) Community Patch ", everytime I launch a game with it ticked, my icons get mismatched and oddly positioned, I'm not sure if this problem has been resolved somewhere since I didn't check for other version and I havn't played this game for almost two years.
So I"m wondering if someone got this problem and solved it and could share the solution.

 

[tu_79]

point this out again, but when does anybody ever give their units City Assault? I guarantee this promotion is rarely used.

Me?
I keep 2 to 3 melee units promoted to city takers. Once they are close to the city and I have my siege units in position, they contribute to assault the city. It's not suicidal as long as my unit doesn't lose more than 50HP, it may pillage and heal with a nearby medic. Every hit against the city made in the same turn counts. If city strength is too high for me to hit with melee, that's because I'm behind in techs, or they have orders or some defensive wonder, in which case I have to revisit the war later.

However, I like your suggestion to Alhambra. Even I can't have many units promoted to city assault. An army where most my melee can have it will make my conquests much easier. And I won't feel bad for all the units promoted with drill before.
It just feels a bit wasted on mounted melee.

 

[CrazyG]

I'll point this out again, but when does anybody ever give their units City Assault?

I do on early swordsmen sometimes, or hoplites.

 

[chicorbeef]

I just want to point out that Legions can already get Cover II right out the gate if they want. So getting Drill I would be more powerful than Cover II, because it gives you options.

I wonder, with so reduced now, is it worth bringing back small AI growth bonuses? The now has less with Tradition and with Settlers costing I think we could cut the AI some slack.

 

[vyyt]

Hello guys, I'm having a weird bug with " (1) Community Patch ", everytime I launch a game with it ticked, my icons get mismatched and oddly positioned, I'm not sure if this problem has been resolved somewhere since I didn't check for other version and I havn't played this game for almost two years.
So I"m wondering if someone got this problem and solved it and could share the solution.

Please upload a screenshot.

 

[randomnub]

With the addition of free GG, I think we can get rid of the morale promotion on the Heroic Epic.

I never liked it personally, it lessens the usefulness of Orders and is very human-friendly, given that it's easy for us to remember to build most units in the same city, and those units don't end as expendable as AIs ones. Now what is probably your first GG and the morale promotion do the same thing, and we end double dipping on combat boni.

Same with Alhambra really, I just don't like the idea a single city in the empire (usually the capital) is the best suited for military production no matter base production and placement, and it also looks like the AI doesn't make a great use of that given they often follow the shock line instead of getting blitz or stalwart out of the gate in the Alhambra city.

A unique global retroactive promotion (of any sort really, not a great fan of city-capture ones though) would be more welcome. Just better base yields (culture probably) on the HE in place of morale would also work imo.

 

[tu_79]

Hello guys, I'm having a weird bug with " (1) Community Patch ", everytime I launch a game with it ticked, my icons get mismatched and oddly positioned, I'm not sure if this problem has been resolved somewhere since I didn't check for other version and I havn't played this game for almost two years.
So I"m wondering if someone got this problem and solved it and could share the solution.

It looks like an issue with EUI, make sure you uninstall any previous EUI, then reinstall VP. It's usually located in the game executable folder.

 

[JamesNinelives]

Personally I like the Morale promotion because it rewards you for specialising. It's also accessible to everyone, whereas the other additional unit promotions tend to only be awarded for completing a wonder. Morale is also probably the best thematic benefit from a Heroic Epic - it's a powerful story that inspires your troops to fight more courageously. They aspire to be like their heroes.

It is true that the mechanic feels human-favoured. I wouldn't be opposed to the promotion applying to all eligible troops rather then just the ones built in that city. I don't know how easy that is to code though.

I'm not big into city-capture promotions either, but Alhambra (which you can only build if you complete the Authority tree) and Rome's Legionnaires seem like exactly the kind of situations where they makes sense me.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

I prefer Alhambra either 1.) giving a unique promotion or 2.) granting extra XP to all units created in this city, so that it allows flexiblity to the Authority player.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Me?
I keep 2 to 3 melee units promoted to city takers. Once they are close to the city and I have my siege units in position, they contribute to assault the city. It's not suicidal as long as my unit doesn't lose more than 50HP, it may pillage and heal with a nearby medic. Every hit against the city made in the same turn counts. If city strength is too high for me to hit with melee, that's because I'm behind in techs, or they have orders or some defensive wonder, in which case I have to revisit the war later. It just feels a bit wasted on mounted melee.

Touche. You're right that's it's not ideal for mounted melee either. I'm not quite sure what we should settle on...

Same with Alhambra really, I just don't like the idea a single city in the empire (usually the capital) is the best suited for military production no matter base production and placement, and it also looks like the AI doesn't make a great use of that given they often follow the shock line instead of getting blitz or stalwart out of the gate in the Alhambra city.

A unique global retroactive promotion (of any sort really, not a great fan of city-capture ones though) would be more welcome.

Now this mechanic was actually my biggest setback for the longest time, and it still irks me now that I play higher difficulties. I imagine one of the main habits from players on lower difficulties is neglecting military, and this was my culprit. I would never want to spend hammers (and still hate to) in any other city on units because a) they're already behind as a secondary city and need to catch up infrastructure wise, and most importantly, b) I'd be missing out on the inevitable Morale and free Drill from Alhambra. It's probably one of the features I enjoy least, to be honest, and would much rather have them apply global bonuses to avoid this.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

I'd be in favour of wonders giving an empire-wide unit benefit (XP, promotion, production bonus,...) to military units, it might be easier for the AI to reap the benefits.

 

[Rekk]

I'll point this out again, but when does anybody ever give their units City Assault? I guarantee this promotion is rarely used. Even with Drill III, melee units attacking castled cities are basically committing suicide a lot of the time, and they don't compare to the efficiency of siege units. It makes no sense that once you build the Authority finisher, you can't really utilize it properly. It currently just serves as quick access to Blitz, which is nice, but Alhambra granting City Assault allows melee units to continue attacking castled cities throughout Medieval and Renaissance, plus doesn't waste a promo for the majority of my army which hopefully already has the Drill line filled out.

My proposal:

• Swords get Cover I
• Legion get Cover I + Drill I to synergize with Roman UA (I fear Cover II makes them too formidable out of the gate)
• Alhambra grants City Assault

Alhambra doesn't need to be Statue of Zeus 2.0.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Alhambra doesn't need to be Statue of Zeus 2.0.

Well it's supposed to be the finisher for the main warmonger tree, after all...

As it stands, I'd rather take the SoZ global 15% bonus any day over Alhambra, which doesn't seem right.

How about we switch them? Drill I (Drill II / III after the free barracks & some warring) is more useful in Ancient/Classical than it is in Medieval, when siege have already established themselves. Alhambra granting a global 15% on cities helps more when Medieval hits and you want to start accumulating vassals.

 

[Omen of Peace]

I like a lot of the suggestions above!
- it doesn't make sense to grant Drill I to the units of an Authority player as late as the Alhambra does. They have been warring for a long time most likely, and a stem promotion is awkward at that point, as has been said time and again (people avoiding Drill so they can get it for free later).

- I also heavily dislike bonus granted only to locally produced units:
a/ I'm in favour of starting by switching Statue of Zeus and Alhambra bonuses.
A local bonus like Drill I obtained early could be acceptable - in early stages there are few cities, and fewer of them producing units.
But I wouldn't mind if Statue of Zeus granted some other kind of global bonus - custom promotion or otherwise.

b/ Heroic Epic could indeed lose Morale (streamlining!)

c/ Still not sure why St Basil grants an Order now to be honest - that weakens the whole Orders belief since having just one grants a large fraction of its power. I know the goal was to have a Wonder for each religious building but... doesn't make sense to me flavour-wise nor balance-wise.
I propose to remove it.

d/ Brandenburger could give its small XP bonus (perhaps slightly lowered if there are balance concerns) globally. It's not a big deal this late in the game. [I haven't built it recently, but I don't think it has changed? It gives +10 XP to units built in the city right?]

 

[Rekk]

c/ A large portion of the Orders belief is still the exponential faith scaling with cities and the ability to build military units with morale in any city as needed. Heroic Epic and St. Basil's are often built in the same city, negating the Morale portion of Orders in that city.

That and I don't see a single wonder that is linked to Orders (lack of medieval wonders in the Mediterranean).

 

[pineappledan]

That and I don't see a single wonder that is linked to Orders (lack of medieval wonders in the Mediterranean).

Just wanted to point out that the icon for Orders in VP is Malbork Castle, which is near the Polish Baltic coastline. Orders aren't necessarily Mediterranean.

d/ Brandenburger could give its small XP bonus (perhaps slightly lowered if there are balance concerns) globally. It's not a big deal this late in the game. [I haven't built it recently, but I don't think it has changed? It gives +10 XP to units built in the city right?]

Brandenburg gives 15XP, which seems low considering Armories give 20XP.

I have lobbied for a more global change to Brandenburg before. Either +XP globally, or it could halve the XP penalty for purchasing units (ie. 3/4 xp for purchased units on empire). Neither idea got much excitement.

 

[Rekk]

Just wanted to point out that the icon for Orders in VP is Malbork Castle, which is near the Polish Baltic coastline. Orders aren't necessarily Mediterranean.

Today I learned about the Baltic Crusades.

Still, the only wonder that I can see that is related to a military order / crusade is Alhambra, and it was used to defend against the Crusaders until it fell. Hagia Sophia was sacked by crusaders...