New Beta Version - June 22nd (6/22)

[bigcat88]

I have the same issue with movement. When i tell a unit to move multiple hexes it stops moving after one hex. is so annoying!

I already created post on GitHub.

 

[ElliotS]

Could we consider changing the 30 for a citizen birth to something else? Its so inconsistent how much this is worth early on. Progress opener actually beats tradition opener in culture if you can get a couple citizens after this, but sometimes I feel like I can't pick progress because I won't get any science from the opener for a long time

I would be fine changing it, but I think making it work retroactively like honor would be enough.

 

[norburger]

That's not how it works right now though. You just can't open organization. You NEED to go worker -> /. If you don't, you just don't have the ability to do anything.

I'll repeat my earlier suggestion:
I think that we should change the production policy to be a tier 1 and also a requirement for the city connection policy. (So it's a Y.)

In addition make the opener work retroactively up to a certain limit, so you're not punished for getting pop ruins or a good food start.

I think that would add more variety in choices. Sometimes you want the worker, you can get it. Sometimes you want production -> organization. You can get it. And if you think organization opener is viable you can still do so.

The issue with progress policy arrangements I see is this:

if you allow Equality (production policy) as tier 1 then you are better than authority at production at the same level.
if you allow Fraternity (food/science policy) as tier 1 then you are almost as good if not better than tradition at growth at the same level.

 

[ElliotS]

The issue with progress policy arrangements I see is this:

if you allow Equality (production policy) as tier 1 then you are better than authority at production at the same level.
if you allow Fraternity (food/science policy) as tier 1 then you are almost as good if not better than tradition at growth at the same level.

Progress would be equal to authority for production for 1 policy. As soon as you hit the third policy authority has 50% more production again. I don't see that as an issue.

 

[grmagne]

How about +100% Production for settlers in the Expertise policy? (Progress, bottom left) It adds to the production/civilian theme that's already in the policy, it helps expansion if you choose the left side first (much needed), and it boosts Progress without directly copying the Authority-Imperium policy.

(It's also Vanilla-retro since it's similar to an original idea from the Liberty branch).

 

[norburger]

Progress would be equal to authority for production for 1 policy. As soon as you hit the third policy authority has 50% more production again. I don't see that as an issue.

You can spend gold on production so no, Equality is better than a 2 policy Authority and if you wanna argue that Authority can compensate with a science/culture boost elsewhere then we are way out of bounds of what policy trees strong points are.

 

[Txurce]

This combined with the new Monument should be a great combo for quick, early settling. If only I could figure out how to protect my anything when barbarians have horsemen by turn 60

Just started my last game before switching to this patch, and currently have an archer, two warriors and a pathfinder defending the capital against two horsemen and two archers. In this case I am realtively heavily militarized -- but only bronze working would have given me an edge, and I don't know I need it until it's too late.

Gazebo, what's the rationale for quickly-upgraded barb swarms so early? It is absolutely not fun, so I wonder what argument offsets that?

 

[Gazebo]

Just started my last game before switching to this patch, and currently have an archer, two warriors and a pathfinder defending the capital against two horsemen and two archers. In this case I am realtively heavily militarized -- but only bronze working would have given me an edge, and I don't know I need it until it's too late.

Gazebo, what's the rationale for quickly-upgraded barb swarms so early? It is absolutely not fun, so I wonder what argument offsets that?

The AI's tech level. Technically the global tech level but AIs are majority.

G

 

[Misaka]

seriusly i don't see the problem with progres xD, rushing the monument in every city, for first instance, i see some people say with tradiction can build more citys, for my experience its not, only if you stop growing you can manage the inhappines with tradition(depend of the terrain), with progres you can build a lot of city in erly and then with equiality and the another give with city conection, Progres only need you to build the road at the star of game, i first unlock the food and after i unlok equality, for mitigate the gold to maintain the road, if i don't have the pantheon 2 gold from city conection, i only use 4 road to conect 3 citys, if you have a lot of mountain,sea,lakes, perhaps its take some complication, if you can obtain the pantheon 2 gold from city conection + progres + rushing roads + city (rushing, monument and shrines(opcional)) don't need build council in first place, may be you lost of some cience but have it a lot in start game, only need principal focus culture, an with roads you obtain cience, i say before pantheon city conection + shirines in second place, because with this 90% of game you obtain first religion if you wanna play with religion, if you don't obtain the phanteon city conection or you want another i don't recomend go with religion a exeption if you plaing a civ that play with religion, for me for the firs 10 city, i don't care cost policity, and every game try to build 5-6 city in ancient era, and gete 10-12 in clasic era. at first i have a little problem with happines (-2 _ -10), but with equality + the other + wall, and 4 or 5 luxuries you fix the problem of happines.

I have a friends its hate the idea of determine a lot of how to play if chose one or another, but seriusly i don't play authority very much but, if i play authority and i don't not fligth with barbarian, dont demand tribute and build 3 or 4 city.... well xD xD xD yes autority need a a huge buff xD lol xD

 

[CrazyG]

Barbs are exiting camps to attack, which makes starting with a pathfinder pretty terrible.

In a game as Carthage, Progress is working fine. Its very dependent on a strong culture start, you have to go monument first and need culture from ruins, CS, or luxuries. But once you get the opener you should do alright, 15 culture per tech is pretty close to what tradition's opener gives.

 

[Txurce]

seriusly i don't see the problem with progres xD, rushing the monument in every city, for first instance, i see some people say with tradiction can build more citys, for my experience its not, only if you stop growing you can manage the inhappines with tradition(depend of the terrain), with progres you can build a lot of city in erly and then with equiality and the another give with city conection, Progres only need you to build the road at the star of game, i first unlock the food and after i unlok equality, for mitigate the gold to maintain the road, if i don't have the pantheon 2 gold from city conection, i only use 4 road to conect 3 citys, if you have a lot of mountain,sea,lakes, perhaps its take some complication, if you can obtain the pantheon 2 gold from city conection + progres + rushing roads + city (rushing, monument and shrines(opcional)) don't need build council in first place, may be you lost of some cience but have it a lot in start game, only need principal focus culture, an with roads you obtain cience, i say before pantheon city conection + shirines in second place, because with this 90% of game you obtain first religion if you wanna play with religion, if you don't obtain the phanteon city conection or you want another i don't recomend go with religion a exeption if you plaing a civ that play with religion, for me for the firs 10 city, i don't care cost policity, and every game try to build 5-6 city in ancient era, and gete 10-12 in clasic era. at first i have a little problem with happines (-2 _ -10), but with equality + the other + wall, and 4 or 5 luxuries you fix the problem of happines.

I have a friends its hate the idea of determine a lot of how to play if chose one or another, but seriusly i don't play authority very much but, if i play authority and i don't not fligth with barbarian, dont demand tribute and build 3 or 4 city.... well xD xD xD yes autority need a a huge buff xD lol xD

A free subscription to Dictionary.com for anyone who can summarize the first sentence.

 

[Txurce]

The AI's tech level. Technically the global tech level but AIs are majority.

G

I get the tech. I don't even mind the upgrades too much. It's the instant attacks by multiple barbs that are crippling. There's no setting how close the camps are to the capital, right? Could the camps spawn later?

 

[CrazyG]

A free subscription to Dictionary.com for anyone who can summarize the first sentence.

He thinks progress isn't so bad, I agree. Strategies that like early science or city connections can use it well. In my current game, the faster builder speed and movement speed for workers was a big deal in connecting an incense monopoly.

I get the tech. I don't even mind the upgrades too much. It's the instant attacks by multiple barbs that are crippling. There's no setting how close the camps are to the capital, right? Could the camps spawn later?

I think if a barbarian sees a unit, all his friends move that direction. Especially now that we start with pathfinder, I just get smothered sometimes.

 

[grmagne]

A free subscription to Dictionary.com for anyone who can summarize the first sentence.

I understood it as:

Some people think Tradition will allow you to expand more quickly than Progress. However, you have to stop growth on Tradition to deal with the unhappiness. With Progress you can build a lot of cities early by going for Equality to provide gold, happiness and production. Next you’ll get food and science with Fraternity, though it requires roads. You need to build roads early but if you don’t have the pantheon for 2 gold for city connections [God of Commerce] then only use 4 roads to connect 3 cities. If you have a lot of mountain, sea and lakes tiles then it might be more difficult to connect cities. You don’t need to build Councils early because roads will provide you with science through city connections. So you can focus on culture and road-building, then build shrines to get a religion. It’s not recommended to try too hard for a religion unless you have God of Commerce or you’re a religious-focused civ. Don’t worry about the culture/science costs of expanding too quickly; build 5-6 cities in the Ancient era, then expand up to 10-12 by Classical.

<End of first sentence>

 

[Gazebo]

I get the tech. I don't even mind the upgrades too much. It's the instant attacks by multiple barbs that are crippling. There's no setting how close the camps are to the capital, right? Could the camps spawn later?

I haven't touched spawning distances for camps - they don't 'cheat' but ilteroi may have enraged them. When he's back in town we'll take a look.

He thinks progress isn't so bad, I agree. Strategies that like early science or city connections can use it well. In my current game, the faster builder speed and movement speed for workers was a big deal in connecting an incense monopoly.


I think if a barbarian sees a unit, all his friends move that direction. Especially now that we start with pathfinder, I just get smothered sometimes.

That's what I was afraid of re: pathfinder starts. Makes a starting warrior almost mandatory, esp. at higher levels.

I really think that progress does well in its current form. Yeah you miss out on some science yields for the capital (I could add an effect to the opener that gives you x science per pop already in the capital, and x for every new citizen thereafter, though), but the new trade route mechanics makes progress a very good leech for mid-game catapulting.

G

 

[Misaka]

Sorry for my english, in the future i will use google traslate xD, the reason is, english is not my mother language xD because i live in uruguay all of y life xD

 

[tu_79]

An early warrior is mandatory, but a monument or a shrine can be built before it, at least in emperor. This makes a difference in harsh terrains, when what was mandatory was to build a scout. It kind of balances plain and rough starts (plain is harder, rough is easier, now).

I said it before, and repeat here. Delaying the first policy, combined with the starting pathfinder, has the benefit of letting the player know what starting policy would be better in his situation. The bad side, as many have noted, is that progress suffers.

I join that complain about the bonus to trade routes in the progress tree. It won't be useful once you beat all the rest (if you manage to arrive there). Since progress thrive with number of cities, what if that policy gives a bonus for having more cities than the receiver, city states included.

 

[ashendashin]

I really think that progress does well in its current form. Yeah you miss out on some science yields for the capital (I could add an effect to the opener that gives you x science per pop already in the capital, and x for every new citizen thereafter, though), but the new trade route mechanics makes progress a very good leech for mid-game catapulting.

The real problem I've had with Progress is building units. There's so little production in it that after the first settler wave it can be very difficult to juggle building priorities to take advantage of the boosts Progress has. Culture and food from buildings? Can't do that when the AI is doing early game zerg rushes. Science from city connections? Workers and roads can be extremely expensive with the number of cities Progress requires. The finisher comes late enough that I can notice the difference, but I rarely ever notice any good growth in my Progress games because production and defense tend to take priority.

How about a % boost to settlers? It would really make it a lot easier to switch the build focus to workers and buildings.

 

[tu_79]

Sorry for my english, in the future i will use google traslate xD, the reason is, english is not my mother language xD because i live in uruguay all of y life xD

lol, it seems like you are more used to speak it than to write it. Keep posting and you'll improve in no time. Granted!

 

[tu_79]

An early warrior is mandatory, but a monument or a shrine can be built before it, at least in emperor. This makes a difference in harsh terrains, when what was mandatory was to build a scout. It kind of balances plain and rough starts (plain is harder, rough is easier, now).

I said it before, and repeat here. Delaying the first policy, combined with the starting pathfinder, has the benefit of letting the player know what starting policy would be better in his situation. The bad side, as many have noted, is that progress suffers.

I join that complain about the bonus to trade routes in the progress tree. It won't be useful once you beat all the rest (if you manage to arrive there). Since progress thrive with number of cities, what if that policy gives a bonus for having more cities than the receiver, city states included.

Like having a policy add an effect to some buildings, markets or whatever, that buff a city when it has incoming or departing trade routes. Just a plain bonus to the city. Like markets giving +2 culture and +2 science if there are any trade route from or to the city. This kind of encourages to spread routes out when going Progress, and that alleviates poverty.