Heinz_Guderian
Prince
What level of instant yields are the AIs getting now, compared to the different versions of 2-18? Does it seem like they are distributed to keep the AI somewhat even thoughout the game, or are they stronger at certain points?
New Beta Version - March 1st (3-1)
- Thread starter Gazebo
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What is the version called?
Would you mind make a new/different thread so we don't mix balance/issue discussions?
I've found some minor issues but not sure if they are the same in the "real" 3.1 version.
Turn 290 and things are rock stable.
It does seem to be stable again with the current fix version to 3-1 (the one linked previously that just changed the (1) directory . At least there have not been any CTD so far, that said it's turn 220 now and the game is already over.
I do get the distinct feeling that the new bonus system is creating runaway AI players. If there is some kind of weird feedback where a bonus creates another bonus or whatnot. So the snowball is real and hard. Me and most of the civs are all around 22-25 techs, currently about to complete their first policy tree. All good and interesting so to speak.
Then there is China and Morocco that are apparently playing some other game on the other side of the world. They are about to finish their second policy tree and they have 36 and 35 techs respectively, so they are about 1.5 eras ahead of everyone else. They also have almost double the amount of population of the rest of us, the Chinese capital is already size 23 which is almost twice the size of most other capitals. Nobody is running away with the amount of cities tho, everyone seems to be within 7-10 cities. On top of this they also built every single wonder in the world together, except the four the rest of us managed and I built half of those. So they are sitting at 10 wonders each.
Overall it's a suck game at the moment cause I'm stuck with two warmongering neighbors that are tag-teaming me non-stop with wars. So things are not exactly going great.But it would still be doable if it wasn't for the snowball-gang.
That said this game is already over, there is no catching up to the leaders. You can't really war with someone that is eras ahead of you, you can't catch up tech wise or close the gap with efficient spying. One might as well just restart and hope to the RNG-gods for more suitable/"better" opponents and geography.
I do get the distinct feeling that the new bonus system is creating runaway AI players. If there is some kind of weird feedback where a bonus creates another bonus or whatnot. So the snowball is real and hard. Me and most of the civs are all around 22-25 techs, currently about to complete their first policy tree. All good and interesting so to speak.
Then there is China and Morocco that are apparently playing some other game on the other side of the world. They are about to finish their second policy tree and they have 36 and 35 techs respectively, so they are about 1.5 eras ahead of everyone else. They also have almost double the amount of population of the rest of us, the Chinese capital is already size 23 which is almost twice the size of most other capitals. Nobody is running away with the amount of cities tho, everyone seems to be within 7-10 cities. On top of this they also built every single wonder in the world together, except the four the rest of us managed and I built half of those. So they are sitting at 10 wonders each.
Overall it's a suck game at the moment cause I'm stuck with two warmongering neighbors that are tag-teaming me non-stop with wars. So things are not exactly going great.But it would still be doable if it wasn't for the snowball-gang.
That said this game is already over, there is no catching up to the leaders. You can't really war with someone that is eras ahead of you, you can't catch up tech wise or close the gap with efficient spying. One might as well just restart and hope to the RNG-gods for more suitable/"better" opponents and geography.
Gokudo01
Emperor
Am I alone to feel like midgame sieges between castle and field canon are long af. I mean even if you win around the city with a decent pop ( 15+ ), you have to hit it so many times ... with siege weapons
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LifeOfBrian
King
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Loorg, playing on Pangea/Oval maps (or any map that is mostly a single landmass) tends to reduce the odds of a runaway of such proportions emerging or, if one does, it makes it easier for you to fight it one way or the other.
But otherwise I agree, bonuses feeding into other bonuses via wonder creation etc. is a problem... /
But otherwise I agree, bonuses feeding into other bonuses via wonder creation etc. is a problem... /
Just tried a decent craftsmen start with a Progress civ. Got 3 quarries in the first city, 2 in second, 2 in third. Went Maus rush into my cities.
Missed the founding by 1 turn (Turn 102), which so far is a very lazy founding, most of the time the AIs are finishing off religion before turn 100. Those immediate bonuses are nice, but craftsmen still remains very faith lite unless you can find a way to compensate.
Missed the founding by 1 turn (Turn 102), which so far is a very lazy founding, most of the time the AIs are finishing off religion before turn 100. Those immediate bonuses are nice, but craftsmen still remains very faith lite unless you can find a way to compensate.
Heinz_Guderian
Prince
We shouldn't have to play pangea-like maps to avoid this though. I hope Loorgs case was an anomaly. If not, I think event based yields need to go, at least as an experiment to see if that helps combat the runaway AI problem
So I've tried a number of Progress and Tradition plays on Immortal, and I am getting my butt whooped. By Turn 150 I'm in last place every time, just can't seem to find a way to make up any ground.
My guess is that because the AI gets bonuses for cities, and is now founding very quickly, they are frontloaded those bonuses which is giving them a springboard.
That said, I have noticed in both this version and the last that the AI is exceptionally passive in the early game. I make almost no troops until Medieval (chivalry) and I can't remember the last time I was attacked. The AI does get aggressive by medieval though and seems fine for the rest of the game.
I think its back to Emperor for me for a while.
My guess is that because the AI gets bonuses for cities, and is now founding very quickly, they are frontloaded those bonuses which is giving them a springboard.
That said, I have noticed in both this version and the last that the AI is exceptionally passive in the early game. I make almost no troops until Medieval (chivalry) and I can't remember the last time I was attacked. The AI does get aggressive by medieval though and seems fine for the rest of the game.
I think its back to Emperor for me for a while.
I had an issue (with the special version) that inquisitors not working, and then working after entering Renaissance Era.
I took the newly changed inquisition enhancer but gold from it seems to only kick in on the old prerequisits (and before Renaissance not working at all).
Tech and policys looked ok balanced (Babylon did tech very fast in the early game).
I took the newly changed inquisition enhancer but gold from it seems to only kick in on the old prerequisits (and before Renaissance not working at all).
Tech and policys looked ok balanced (Babylon did tech very fast in the early game).
BiteInTheMark
Deity
3 pantheons founded before turn 28.
And this only at emperor difficulty.
Seems a bit too much in my eyes. Especially by the fact, that I have disabled ruins and have not one religious CS in my game. They must be finishing the shrine after only 3 turns...
Edit: this time it crashed on turn 77 in AI turn. I tried every unit/building/tech which could trigger a crash, but nothing found. Deleting all other AI civs solves the problem. A bit boring to play now.
Here is the save. I used the newest version, only VP and IGE.
And this only at emperor difficulty.
Seems a bit too much in my eyes. Especially by the fact, that I have disabled ruins and have not one religious CS in my game. They must be finishing the shrine after only 3 turns...
Edit: this time it crashed on turn 77 in AI turn. I tried every unit/building/tech which could trigger a crash, but nothing found. Deleting all other AI civs solves the problem. A bit boring to play now.
Here is the save. I used the newest version, only VP and IGE.
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Cokolwiek
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
- Messages
- 512
Okay. Deity, standard, continents, no events, no ruins, Russia, strong start with citruses, tradition, wheel and stonehenge after monument right off the bat. Turn 24 2 pantheons gone, turn 25 3 pantheons gone, 26 one pantheon gone, 27 one pantheon gone, turn 28 stonhenge hijacked by four turns from me, ragequit. With 6 pop capital. I would have not been able to found religion anyway I think. Early ai bonuses status: InSaNe.
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Yeah I have 6 founded at turn 30 on Immortal. Thought I could get my pantheon considering I started on a forest, got a production village, and built shrine first, but no. Personally I think the game would be better if anyone could choose any pantheon. 99% of the time I just restart if I don't get the one I want.3 pantheons founded before turn 28.
And this only at emperor difficulty.
Seems a bit too much in my eyes. Especially by the fact, that I have disabled ruins and have not one religious CS in my game. They must be finishing the shrine after only 3 turns...
Edit: this time it crashed on turn 77 in AI turn. I tried every unit/building/tech which could trigger a crash, but nothing found. Deleting all other AI civs solves the problem. A bit boring to play now.
Here is the save. I used the newest version, only VP and IGE.
I know, it's deity. It should be hard. It was probably a bit to easy before. But this is just unplayable. It's very enjoyable for the first 150ish turns or so. That is about for as long as I have managed to keep up in a couple of games now cause after that the snowball is real and it's just unbeatable. There was some kind of tech, policy, wonder parity up until that point. During the next 100 turns or so the snowball just starts rollin' cranking out techs, policies and wonder like there was no tomorrow.
In the next 100 turns, slighlty less, their (Morroco, I don't know if it's just them or what is up but I don't think so -- India isn't far behind in this game either but the rest of us are just eating dust) capital almost triple in size to 27, India isn't far behind at 25. The third largest capital in the world is 15. They only build two more cities (from 5 to 7), but go from 27 to 123 pops. Morroco complete almost an entire policy branch as others gain two-three policies. Morroco builds 8 wonders during this period. The tech span was all civs within four techs of each other. Morroco wasn't even the leader -- Siam had constructed the great library and was on top. So in less then a hundred turns they research 24 new techs on top of what they already had. That is almost a tech every fourth turn, on epic speed (there is no tech trading or brokering or anything of the sort). I would say it's impossible to keep up with it. When I, and the "normal" civs, do one tech -- they will have done 3-4.
Not being satisfied with this, Morroco manages to spread their faith to 30 cities making it larger then all other religions in the world combined. They didn't even get the first religion, it was the third. They now cover themselves, three others civs and seven city-states. Also they somehow also managed getting defensive pacts with five other nations.
I tried being a bastard and do an early war start, running around hunting settlers etc. I captured three of them. Did that even put a dent in the AI and their settling spree? Nope.
I could play on a lesser level but I'm not sure there is much point to it. The snowball is there to, just not as hard. But from what I can tell here fairly hard.
In the next 100 turns, slighlty less, their (Morroco, I don't know if it's just them or what is up but I don't think so -- India isn't far behind in this game either but the rest of us are just eating dust) capital almost triple in size to 27, India isn't far behind at 25. The third largest capital in the world is 15. They only build two more cities (from 5 to 7), but go from 27 to 123 pops. Morroco complete almost an entire policy branch as others gain two-three policies. Morroco builds 8 wonders during this period. The tech span was all civs within four techs of each other. Morroco wasn't even the leader -- Siam had constructed the great library and was on top. So in less then a hundred turns they research 24 new techs on top of what they already had. That is almost a tech every fourth turn, on epic speed (there is no tech trading or brokering or anything of the sort). I would say it's impossible to keep up with it. When I, and the "normal" civs, do one tech -- they will have done 3-4.
Not being satisfied with this, Morroco manages to spread their faith to 30 cities making it larger then all other religions in the world combined. They didn't even get the first religion, it was the third. They now cover themselves, three others civs and seven city-states. Also they somehow also managed getting defensive pacts with five other nations.
I tried being a bastard and do an early war start, running around hunting settlers etc. I captured three of them. Did that even put a dent in the AI and their settling spree? Nope.
I could play on a lesser level but I'm not sure there is much point to it. The snowball is there to, just not as hard. But from what I can tell here fairly hard.
Disregard!
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I too had every civ take their pantheons before turn 30 on Emperor (I'm using original beta because I haven't experienced any CTD issues thankfully).
As andersw pointed out, I also think there is something fishy going on with inquisitors; I didn't take Inquisition, but I still noticed them sometimes failing to convert followers during the first half of my game.
Parity feels great otherwise (so far, 200+ turns in): Ethiopia just doubled up the field on wonders by building Sistine/Taj/Porcelain in back-to-back turns, but has just overtaken me for first in score, sitting a policy and 2 techs ahead. I'm about to pick my 3rd tree, but there are even a few other civs right behind us (Russia/Maya/Babylon/Carthage) that have already dipped 2 policies into Rationalism and now have a slight tech lead.
As andersw pointed out, I also think there is something fishy going on with inquisitors; I didn't take Inquisition, but I still noticed them sometimes failing to convert followers during the first half of my game.
Parity feels great otherwise (so far, 200+ turns in): Ethiopia just doubled up the field on wonders by building Sistine/Taj/Porcelain in back-to-back turns, but has just overtaken me for first in score, sitting a policy and 2 techs ahead. I'm about to pick my 3rd tree, but there are even a few other civs right behind us (Russia/Maya/Babylon/Carthage) that have already dipped 2 policies into Rationalism and now have a slight tech lead.
Using the version found in this thread.
Before you assume it is the handicap causing the spike in potency, please check the handicap logs for evidence.
Incorrect- the only things missing from my CP 'fix' version are the changes made by ilteroi.
G
You are not alone. I would lower city HP in the mid and late game.
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