New Beta Version - March 1st (3-1)

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Mendicancy - dropped ITR stuff, added +1 faith per 10GPT, capped at half followers
--Why was this changed?

IMO this is a stronger bonus.
But this is literally the commerce pantheon before the change. Or like veneration follower belief.
I thought there is an agreement, that we have too few enhancers, so why not let mendicancy stay unique as it is and make the new mendicancy and syncretism new enhancers?
 
I ran a few games with these files, speeding through turns as fast as I could - made it to turn 100 multiple times, and past 300 once, with no issues. Before this I was getting the CTD with no error messages at around 50-60 every time.

I'm keen to start a proper game now, the changes look solid. Love your work, guys.
 

173 turns and no CTD yet! No mods this time apart from VP, just in case.

@Stalker0 I managed to build the Hanging Gardens around Turn 145 on Epic speed, Immortal with Progress as Morocco. Thanks to a capital with stone, marble, lapis lazuli, God of Craftsmen and the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus. Huge map size and slower speed does make things easier for the player. Strangely enough Egypt was in the game and built the Roman Forum instead, finishing it about 10 turns before I finished my HG.

I also managed to found the last religion, probably by sheer luck because normally there aren't any left past turn 140 on these settings. Most were founded about 15-20 turns earlier.

Spoiler Wonderful :
20200303141226_1.jpg

Edit: got to turn 247, taking a break but I think this is it!

Edit 2/3: thought this version didn't include AI improvements but actually it mostly does? OK. Have since played more games on the same difficulty and haven't done nearly as well.
 
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What is your setting?
What civs on the map?
Communitu_79a v1. 15
Standard size and pace.
No events, transparent diplomacy.
I'm playing Rusia, and I've met Songhai, Iroquois and Inca, and I suspect Persia. I have not sailed to the other continent yet, I didn't have any coastal city (a surrounded start). Well, now I have one, but it is still in revolt.

I'm very happy with the current generated map, lots of lakes for the Iroquois, lots of deserts and hills for me, lots of jungle for Songhai. Hiawatha did well and picked the fresh water pantheon. He also placed his cities in locations where only one or two melee can hit at the same time.
I was surprised to see that I could found a religion with Rusia, Mother Earth and just three cities (one from Pyramids, one from Authority), but this is King difficulty. Silver monopoly and a few iron helped.
 
Moderator Action: Trolling, and responses to it, deleted. In future, please report posts and do not respond to them. It only feeds the troll.
 
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This seems fine, no crash T170.

Wow religion, I got the first pantheon as siam thanks to meeting a religious cs, took open sky went to build Stone henge because of that I skimped a bit on shines.
Got the last religion at around T160 epic speed emperor.
AI expanding fast but not insanely fast, managed to kill one neighbours warr+settler capture and grabbed a nice settle block on Dido.
Some are teching a bit fast I say.
 
About 200 turns in as Morocco on a Standard Frontier map, Emperor, Epic. (3/4 UC, no events, no tech trading and brokering) I went for Tutelary Gods and a Pyramid rush (Silver monopoly) on Progress tree. Ais: Polynesia (Prog), Poland (Trad), Inca (Progress oO ... Monty ... not Authority), Rome (Auth), Brazil (Progress), Netherland (Prog), Ethiopia (Prog). Up to late Classical we are all happy and fuzzy and friends (well there are some Morocco cavalry on sniping duty), Netherland got Great Lighthouse 2 turns before me and 4 turns after he managed to build Petra.

Anyway so far it seems a balanced gameplay with no runaway. AIs are aggressively expanding but so do I. Founded my religion as third without sweating. God of Commerce is better for Morocco but I wanted a quick boost in production (and it paid off with Pyramids, Temple of Artemis and Terracotta Army) and the faith on this pantheon seems just right.

Wonders are spread out and competition is fierce.

A nice release ! I'm eager to continue playing.
 
Goddess of Love now Tutleary Gods - +2 production, +1 faith in cities with 3+ citizens; +1 production and faith from Engineer specialists
--So if we consider that God of All Creation is currently the exemplar belief for "faith too low to commonly found, but strong enough bonuses to be worth it". GOAC gives 1 faith immediately, with 1 faith scaling per city (with monument). I would say this belief gives 1 faith immediately, a second faith with tradition's engineer belief as a 3rd policy (and this belief would only be taken with tradition imo). Its secondary scalers in other cities is almost non-existant, as forges take 5 techs and a 150 hammer building to get its faith. For comparison, craftsmen, which historically as been a pantheon cited as "takes too long to get the buildings up", requires 3 techs and a 110 hammer building.

Tutleary may be a bit weak, but I do want an 'animist' pantheon that gives us a potent ancient/classical with a slim chance of founding, comparable to GOAC.
What about something like, "when a city gets 3+ pop, it gains 1 pop". Gives an immediate boost to population in the early game, which is attractive, but then non-existant scaling.
 
After some test games on deity I see all AIs getting a pantheon between t23 and t27. No clue how they can reliably gather 50 faith in that timeframe, if not gold rushing shrine first with the production from handicap making it finish on the next turn. No way I can select mine before that, if not playing Siam/Spain/India/Ethiopia. Not liking that much tbh, many pantheons are now ruled out for the player (there's always some AI picking Home, Ancestor, Commerce or Expanse so far).
 
After some test games on deity I see all AIs getting a pantheon between t23 and t27. No clue how they can reliably gather 50 faith in that timeframe, if not gold rushing shrine first with the production from handicap making it finish on the next turn. No way I can select mine before that, if not playing Siam/Spain/India/Ethiopia. Not liking that much tbh, many pantheons are now ruled out for the player (there's always some AI picking Home, Ancestor, Commerce or Expanse so far).
They probably got some extra faith from meeting a city state.
 
Just another opening data point for Immortal.

1) Pyr/StoneH both built by Turn 27. A very tough but doable build if the stars align, but they have to really align.
2) ToA built on Turn 55.
3) Roman Forum built on turn 66 (jesus!), HG on Turn 71. I managed to get the GL on Turn 82, but considering the HG build time, that seems to have been a complete gamble.
4) Religions consumed on Turn 93.
5) Incredibly fast expansion from the AI. 6 and 5 cities respectively to my 4. Now I could be expanding faster, but I've taken CrazyG's advice of late that it slows down your culture too much to expand that fast. Hehe, apparently the AI didn't get that message:)

One of the most telling points for me right now, Polynesia playing progress has an extra policy compared to my Tradition play (going artist first) with a +6 culture natural wonder. You just can't compete in wonders when the AI can amass culture that quickly.
 
Stopped playing my Morocco game on turn 289. No issues apart from civilian units blocking each other when embarked (which I think may already be fixed for the next version?).

Firstly, I really underestimated Morocco, in particular their UA. Everyone seemed to want to trade with me all the time, I had so many caravans coming in. I thought Morocco would be a pretty slow start, but it turns out the UA kicks in pretty much from trade onwards because outgoing TRs give you extra yields and you are a magnet for ingoing TRs.

I adore Kasbahs, even moreso than the UI of my go-to civ The Shonone i.e. Encampments, even though they unlock earlier and you can build more of them. The reason I love kasbahs is that you can build them on resources and still get access to the resource, and athough they can only be built city-centre adjacent they buff coastal tiles so that they are pretty much on par with inland cities with 6 kashbahs.

One small complaint, while Kasbahs do buff lakes, they do not buff oases. This effectively means you may have to trade up between access to fresh water in your city (which gives water mills and) or an extra Kasbah. You'd think given Morocco is desert-themed it would either apply to oases and not to lakes, or apply to both. Granted oases are good tiles anyway... but not as good as a Kasbah.
Home, Ancestor

Yeah, I noticed these are popular too. Pantheon adoption time seems OK on lower levels, maybe it's a deity thing in particular? What other settings are you playing?
 
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Stopped playing my Morocco game on turn 289. No issues apart from civilian units blocking each other when embarked (which I think may already be fixed for the next version?).

Firstly, I really underestimated Morocco, in particular their UA. Everyone seemed to want to trade with me all the time, I had so many caravans coming in. I thought Morocco would be a pretty slow start, but it turns out the UA kicks in pretty much from trade onwards because outgoing TRs give you extra yields and you are a magnet for ingoing TRs.

I adore Kasbahs, even moreso than the UI of my go-to civ The Shonone i.e. Encampments, even though they unlock earlier and you can build more of them. The reason I love kasbahs is that you can build them on resources and still get access to the resource, and athough they can only be built city-centre adjacent they buff coastal tiles so that they are pretty much on par with inland cities with 6 kashbahs.

I small complaint, while Kasbahs do buff lakes, they do not buff oases. This effectively means you may have to trade up between access to fresh water in your city (which gives water mills and) or an extra Kasbah. You'd think given Morocco is desert-themed it would either apply to oases and not to lakes, or apply to both. Granted oases are good tiles anyway... but not as good as a Kasbah.


Yeah, I noticed these are popular too. Pantheon adoption time seems OK on lower levels, maybe it's a deity thing in particular? What other settings are you playing?

Well we're split right now - the 'official' beta on the main page has all the latest tactical AI and pathfinding changes. The beta you are on (and others with the CTD issue) reverted all of Ilteroi's changes, but kept the balance changes. We're trying to diagnose what is causing the CTDs from Ilteroi's work.
 
Well we're split right now - the 'official' beta on the main page has all the latest tactical AI and pathfinding changes. The beta you are on (and others with the CTD issue) reverted all of Ilteroi's changes, but kept the balance changes. We're trying to diagnose what is causing the CTDs from Ilteroi's work.

I don't mind doing trial and error if it's possible to implement a few of the changes at a time. E.g split the changes into four versions, see which one(s) crash. If that can help narrow things down.
 
Another issue I'd like to see fixed before this version of Vox Populi is considered stable is the adviser panel crash. It wouldn't be that big of a deal if there wasn't a hotkey for it.
 
Anyone else seeing that in the early game the AI won't value your horses at all in the trade screen, regardless if they have them themselves or if they're warmongers or not?
 
Anyone else seeing that in the early game the AI won't value your horses at all in the trade screen, regardless if they have them themselves or if they're warmongers or not?

Yeah. I'm getting that too in the early-game (on the CTD-avoid version). Oddly after a while Rome offered me a trade for all four of my horses for double what I usually value them at.
 
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