New Beta Version - March 2nd (3-2)

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Here's a great example of the new aircraft dynamic

Spoiler :

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Though my zeros aren't doing the big damage of my bombers, the 11-12 range I have through promotions is allowing me to project force over this long stretch of water, which would be impossible with bombers. So I've built bombers in the south for anti-naval operations, and zeroes on my west coast for this strategic bombing. Working great!
 
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In regards to voluntary vassalage, the easiest way to solve this would be to block voluntary vassalage if a civ is at war. The problem with this is that a phony war could block voluntary vassalage, making this human exploitable.

Alternatively, I could add code so that the master is pulled into any existing wars - this would also need extra AI code so the AI understands when to do this.

Other suggestions would require a disproportionate amount of work compared to the benefits.
 
Alternatively, I could add code so that the master is pulled into any existing wars - this would also need extra AI code so the AI understands when to do this.
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I'm good with this concept. And to PAD concern above, you can scroll through the right bar to see what even civ has war wise before committing to a deal, so you can always look there and see if your vassal target is at war with anyone.
 
@Recursive , is there any chance to toggle diplomatic options in the game files to turn off voluntary vassalage? If not, could it be added without too much work for you?

Yeah, I can add that.
 
Spoiler :

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Standard Communitas_79 on Immortal Netherlands (no tech trading, no ruins). DV on Turn 418.

So this was a good game to test out several of the changes. Ultimately I was pretty dominant most of the game. I had constant wars with Inca, but our forest border kept both of us from pushing too hard. I had a quick early war to snag Arabia's overextended city, and later on as both the Inca and England started to build up, Arabia did a volunteer vassal with me.

I knew England was going to be a major threat, both for its upcoming naval power through SOTL, but also its aggressive allying of the southern CS below me. So I went with a very aggressive Sea Beggar strat. I saved all of my gold, did a tech beeline to Beggars, and then blew all of my gold to buy/upgrade my ships into a ready to go fleet.

This proved perfect timing, I was able to get my beggars out against England just as his SOTL were starting to come online. I managed to trap 2 SOTL in the cities, and pounced. England had few ranged units, and some of them were busy fighting Arabia. Without land support, his cities were easy prey...I took his capital without much issue, and vassalized him.

Meanwhile, Persia was becoming the dominant western power. Getting 2 liberation requests for some western CS, I decided to pay him a visit. This turned into a massive late game war, which gave me a chance to really play with some vassal and air war options. Ultimately Persia was no match for my might, and I steadily pushed him back.


All of it came to a head as Hegemony rolled around. While my vassals would not vote for me innately, they could be bribed. I bought all fo the votes from my two vassals, which combined with my own secured the victory.

1) Critical Note: So with the change your vassals don't vote for you innately. However, there is nothing that stops you from using the innate diplomat to bribe them for hegemony votes. With that in mind, I do not think any adjustment in vote count is needed, my vassals gave me reasonable deals for my good treatment of them. It was expensive, but nothing crazy considering it was giving me the win.

2) I really like the new fighter paradigm. I was using Triplanes and Zeroes for their range when needed, and then brought in bombers for the real pain once I took a city. At no point did I find the new fighter superior to the bomber, but the added range gave me just enough flexibility that I found a niche for both. I like it!

3) I did not find the increased healing speed to be of consequence, it still simply takes too long for a late game city to heal up.

4) I immediately used the back to back UN vote, as it failed the first time, but I was able to vote for it in the next run. I like it!

5) The patch notes for hydro says its +4 now, but its only +3. Hydro is better for islands now, but I did the math on several of my cities

6) Comparing Nuclear to Wind. So in my capital I did the math. A nuclear plant generated an extra 201 production (this is including 5 engineer specialists, and the +2 hammer they receive). My wind plant would generate an extra 106. So the nuclear plant is now clearly the better option for hammers, but the wind plant still generates a good amount of science and gold on top. My first reaction when I saw the nuclear change was I thought it was be way too good at 50%...but honestly on my first pass I think that's not unreasonable for spending a precious uranium. Further, as science has been slowed down, allowing for a speed up in hammers to slightly compensate makes sense.

7) Police Station: So I did a look at my cities in the late game stage. Without exception (and I even had a 30 pop non capital), I had maximum happiness in every city. So the police station literally did nothing for me. It might be better to have it give a -1 to all types of unhappiness or some other change.

8) Solar Plant still shows 15% instead of the 20% that is now expected.

9) I definitely noticed the weaker GS. Generally I start bulbing around Industrial Era for a progress play, I may try a few more academies next time to see if I get a better utilization overall.

10) I did not have a religion all game, and yet dominated this game quite easily. Again, its surprising the benefits of not worrying about shrines early and letting other people just fight over you, acquiring religious buildings and then having a ton of faith late game on GP.
 
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The big news for me are:
  1. Vassals can be bribed for a DV. That totally addresses nerf concerns.
  2. Cities still don't heal fast enough. This should be easy to knock up.
  3. Watch out for pathfinders — somebody gave them a brain!
 
Watch out for pathfinders — somebody gave them a brain!

It really means you need a reasonable home defense force (maybe a couple central horses?) even in the earlygame wars, because it's almost inevitable some pathfinder will appear fresh back from scouting. Before they barely did anything, but now they could cause huge issues if unchecked.
 
Alternatively, I could add code so that the master is pulled into any existing wars - this would also need extra AI code so the AI understands when to do this.
I would prefer this. It makes more sense, you are supposed to be protecting your vassals. It also actually makes it an exchange - you protect them, in exchange you get control over them. If peace is made you basically just get free control without having to do much.
 
Nice write-up as always, @Stalker. I have a couple of questions:

1) Has anything changed re AA and SAMs being too strong? Did SAMs still one-shot your Zeroes? I finally experienced what you were talking about recently. I am like 2-3 versions behind though. The strange thing was that it seemed that equally promoted enemy SAMs were intercepting differently. One killed my Zero, one only damaged it (badly). As if the underlying terrain played some role in it.

2) How was the AI army composition late game? No AA spam? I sometimes notice AIs don't have enough strategic resources to produce advanced units late game and run around with obsolete ones (checked with IGE and they had deficits for Oil and Aluminum). But I suspect I broke something on my end, I add units and tweak things a lot. Your screenshots show a reasonable variety in AI units.
 
Played my first game on this version as Spain, abandoned in the early modern era as i'm just so far ahead with 5 capitals, 5 techs and 6 policies ahead of the closest runner up, over 40K gold and a dominant unmatched land and naval forces and about 190 supply .... i could just spam buy foreign legions starting at level 5 (Elite forces, Brandenburg gate, Orders, military academies) and take the land locked capitals but i'm not up for the grind to be honest.
Some notes:
  • Japan's tradition capital (that had no food-focused tiles shortage did not surpass 7 population by the renaissance era, working specialist slots and production heavy tiles could be tempting but i think there should be a minimum amount of allowed growth to avoid situations like these that is just a major set back for any normal civilization.
  • I'll just copy what i wrote in Spain's thread about the conquistadors
    A minor gripe but i don't like Conquistadors obsoleting at military science instead of combustion; The rule with pretty much every UU is it obsoletes after it's successor obsoletes so i thing Conquistadors should obsolete when land ships go online.
  • Spain is still a top tier civ in my book; Authority Spain early game is really strong that it can steam roll really early ... not comparable to how strong the previous spain was but i'd like to say it's stilly satisfying to play.
  • Maybe a confirmation bias but Alhambra Jinette promotion states a 50% chance to retreat (if there is a space to retreat), i just don't see lancers/Conquistadors retreating at all ... are we sure it's working?
 
Making the city healing speed as percentage of its max HP would fix any slow repair issues, for example 5% per turn, or to allow for faster healing early, 5 flat + 5% per turn. It means it will be fully up in 20 turns even after the worst siege.
 
Playing new version see this for the first time: Persia declared a war and fights very clever with me with smart combination of units, but with my CS ally they brought defense down to 0 6-7 turns ago and just staying bombarding it with siege units
 
Making the city healing speed as percentage of its max HP would fix any slow repair issues, for example 5% per turn, or to allow for faster healing early, 5 flat + 5% per turn. It means it will be fully up in 20 turns even after the worst siege.
Flat healing (same as currently) when enemies are in range, with an extra 5% heal otherwise.
 
Flat healing (same as currently) when enemies are in range, with an extra 5% heal otherwise.
Sounds good. The %healing could be baseline, or come with one of the defensive structures. Possibly on the defense/quarry pantheon as well?
 
Seen cases where me dragging out wars getting AI to vassal other player (I think it was peace vassal) probably ok but a bit questionable.

Seen some voluntary/peace vassalage, Im not a big fan of the mechanics.
Voluntary vassalage with someone that is NOT the direct neighbour is a what help?
AI cant really get much protection and so its basically just an additional defensive pact?

Question is does it help the AI caving in? does that AI get any benefits? does it cost anything? (like vassal tax)
Is voluntary vassalage basically just giving up?
What decides who that AI will give up to?
 
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