New Beta Version - March 2nd (3-2)

[youngsteve]

Sick. I usually play 10 or 11 civs on a standard size communitu continents, and the recent changes have made the barb threat real on a crowded map for the first time. Really shaking up the rote opening rounds.

On that note, I do wonder if anyone else has shared my experience of finding lots more ruins in this and the last version? I used to find maybe 3-4 per game and my last several games, I've found 8+. Maybe because of either a more barb-cautious AI or else some reckless AI scouts getting offed? Anyone else experiencing this?

I personally never use Ancient Ruins as they unbalance the game, & as your example shows completely in the players favour. I see this all the time, particulary people playing on the highest levels who use them, gaining ridiclous starts. Why people play the hardest levels, then use something that makes the game alot easier is beyond me.

 

[Recursive]

I have remembered a problem that came about fairly recently, last couple of patches maybe? Building wonders now forces production focus. Which makes sense in most cases but for early wonders it can lead to the AI having size one capitals for quite a while

ilteroi has just fixed this bug.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Not sure if this is intended or not but i declared war against Japan who was no match to my numbers and the next turn he is the Vassal of Morocco (They were not at war) and i was forced into peace without a treaty.
I'm not sure if it's an intended feature or not but it's kinda clever move.

 

[Recursive]

Not sure if this is intended or not but i declared war against Japan who was no match to my numbers and the next turn he is the Vassal of Morocco (They were not at war) and i was forced into peace without a treaty.
I'm not sure if it's an intended feature or not but it's kinda clever move.

Yes, it's intended. AI can exploit voluntary vassalage like this now. If in danger, they can seek a protector.

 

[psparky]

Yes, it's intended. AI can exploit voluntary vassalage like this now. If in danger, they can seek a protector.

Don't agree with this one. If they anticipate the danger and become a voluntary vassal, fine, but once they are at war, it shouldn't be possible. Maybe if you are also already at war with the new master it would be OK?

 

[Recursive]

Don't agree with this one. If they anticipate the danger and become a voluntary vassal, fine, but once they are at war, it shouldn't be possible. Maybe if you are also already at war with the new master it would be OK?

I didn't make the AI able to do it, I just made them take advantage of the tool already available to them.

You can declare war on the master if you want to continue the war...or else maybe add that Disengagement feature you were talking about a while back

 

[tothePAIN]

I didn't make the AI able to do it, I just made them take advantage of the tool already available to them.

You can declare war on the master if you want to continue the war...or else maybe add that Disengagement feature you were talking about a while back

Yeah, my concern here is as to troops getting pushed into weird positions because of forced peace when bounced from the enemy territory.

 

[bigcat88]

Yes, it's intended. AI can exploit voluntary vassalage like this now. If in danger, they can seek a protector.

Maybe then vassal master must declare auto war to protect his vassal?(In this example after Japan ask Morocco for vassalage, no peace starts, just Morocco enters the war)
We can imagine situation when Japan almost lost one city, then ask for vassalage and all troops moved out before they can capture the city.

 

[Milae]

Yes, it's intended. AI can exploit voluntary vassalage like this now. If in danger, they can seek a protector.

Not sure about this tbh, seems quite weird to force a peace on to someone who doesn't want it. Maybe the protector should have to join the war on their vassals side?

 

[Stalker0]

Not sure about this tbh, seems quite weird to force a peace on to someone who doesn't want it. Maybe the protector should have to join the war on their vassals side?

Yeah I like this idea better, effectively when you join the vassal you get its problems, instead of automatically fixing them.


Something I'm putting on the watch list. I did the whole "10 turns to prepare thing", and then we immediately at war with that person. Perhaps it was just coincidence and they declared on me, but I didn't see a notification so I'm noting it in case anyone else sees the behavior. If I see it again I'll note it as a bug.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

Playing a game now, I noticed that an 8-city Poland (second in size behind 10-city Zulus) became a voluntary vassal to 7-city Songhai late in the medieval era, so I'm not sure if that's the optimal state of affairs we want for voluntary vassalage.

 

[youngsteve]

Not sure about this tbh, seems quite weird to force a peace on to someone who doesn't want it. Maybe the protector should have to join the war on their vassals side?

That is how Paradox games like EU work. If you vassilise a country you join any wars they are in.

 

[stormfallen]

If it could be implemented, a feature where the aggressor can choose whether to peace out or declare on the new master as well would be neat.

Songhai declares on Japan, Japan (on their turn) vassals to Morocco, and Morocco immediately goes to Songhai warning that they can either peace our or declare war on Morocco, too.

 

[pineappledan]

Without a major UI overhaul, I think this current option is the best we can ask for. There is not any indication from the trade screen that accepting a voluntary vassal ropes you into a war (unless the AI de facto has a war with those players as a condition of their vassalization. I can see a situation where players feel like they have been tricked into accepting 1 or more wars.

 

[usadefcon1]

After not playing a game for a while, I must say this version is really good. Hats off to the devs!

 

[Recursive]

Without a major UI overhaul, I think this current option is the best we can ask for. There is not any indication from the trade screen that accepting a voluntary vassal ropes you into a war (unless the AI de facto has a war with those players as a condition of their vassalization. I can see a situation where players feel like they have been tricked into accepting 1 or more wars.

Pretty much, yeah. The UI work would be extensive.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm seeing city states that are allied with me really sending their units far to attack my enemies. Was there actually a change here or is it just coincidence? I'm liking it, just wasn't sure if it was a formal change.

 

[ilteroi]

I'm seeing city states that are allied with me really sending their units far to attack my enemies. Was there actually a change here or is it just coincidence? I'm liking it, just wasn't sure if it was a formal change.

unintended but i think it's because AI players now add their allies' local strength to their own, so they figure they have a chance

 

[2506]

Playing a game now, I noticed that an 8-city Poland (second in size behind 10-city Zulus) became a voluntary vassal to 7-city Songhai late in the medieval era, so I'm not sure if that's the optimal state of affairs we want for voluntary vassalage.

I noticed something similar in the last patch as well.

unintended but i think it's because AI players now add their allies' local strength to their own, so they figure they have a chance

They're also willing to keep fighting the "next" target after taking a neighboring city, which is also great.

 

[Stalker0]

So here is the new healing. I have a city with an arsenal (1040 hp). Currently healing with the new no enemy units within 3 is 27 hp/turn.

So if my city is half damaged (520), it would take 20 turns to heal to full. Still much too long imo.