New Beta Version - October 8th (10-8)

[pineappledan]

I second some form of fix for this. There’s an incentive to have your city with only a naval garrison, because it will have higher if the land unit leaves.

 

[Gazebo]

Then how about make Boats not boost the city defense at all? From a gameplay standpoint, it makes no sense that a city with two garrison units uses the lower of the two since land units generally have less than their naval counterparts.

Fairly certain that's unintended change for @ilteroi - might notify him on Github.

G

 

[amateurgamer88]

I also wonder how people thought about Great General and Great Admiral boosting the city defense they are stationed in. I'm not seeing in my game but I wonder if people want it or not.

 

[ryanmusante]

I second some form of fix for this. There’s an incentive to have your city with only a naval garrison, because it will have higher if the land unit leaves.

Does a city with naval, air and land units garrisoned defend with each in succession?

 

[Stalker0]

In case anyone wasn't sure if the AI can build canals.

Well played AI, well played.

 

[Stalker0]

Standard Immortal Fractal Map as England. DV on Turn 422, my 2nd immortal win!

So funny enough, I had forgotten vassals will vote for you for Global Hegemony, so I was actually going SV. I was just about to finish CERN and get the last techs I needed when I won....so yay me!

A good game. It was me competing with China all game, I had to hit her with the big bat about 3 times to finally get over her. I also had the greatest amphibious assault game I've done. I had a huge force hit the beach against China's inexhaustible supply of troops, backed by a lot of bombers (and my bombers were juuuuuuuust out of range). I will say that Paratroopers can tank a lot of pain, and I used them for the front line. I know they just lost their Entrenchments upgrade in the latest patch, and I think that's a good thing. I don't think such a portable unit should really be so tanky….though on the other hand their offense is lackluster compared to everything else.


Just a few notes:

1) England SOTL: I went into this game to find out if the SOTL was as crazy as I thought it would be. Ultimately its inconclusive for me, as I just played some really stupid naval play every on and by the time I recovered we were already moving out of the age of sail. That said, the unit is amazing (top tier UU for sure), but I'm not sure if its as strong as I thought it might be.

2) Interception: A big QoL improvement for me. I get that the combat screen won't show me interceptors if they are out of vision (which they always are!!!), but when I get intercepted can it at least show me that in the combat screen (your bomber was intercepted by X and took 50 damage). Its so annoying to have to watch my bombers like a hawk to see if interception is actually occurring.

3) Hydro/Wind Plant: I will say these plants at least feel better to me, I'll have to run the numbers to see if they are actually worth it, but they do feel strong now.

4) I am loving the CS Aggression now. I had 2 CS help take cities this game! They really feel like partners now.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

) Hydro/Wind Plant: I will say these plants at least feel better to me, I'll have to run the numbers to see if they are actually worth it, but they do feel strong now.

I think "strong" is the wrong word.
A single building able to generate more science than all your specialists and citizens together could be called op.
Every other building or policy add 1-3 yields to a special improvement or terrain, and with a windplant, you add 12 to literally most of the tiles your able to work.

I ask me, how you think this building couldn't be worth to be constructed. Sometimes I've constructed every building available already in industrial, but definitely in modern age. So why shouldn't I spent my hammers into it, if it gives me plenty of gold and science.

 

[Stalker0]

So why shouldn't I spent my hammers into it, if it gives me plenty of gold and science.

There a two things competing with the power plant:

1) Another plant, like the nuclear plant. Is the benefit worth the loss of a big boost in hammers?

2) Processes: Does the cost of the plant pay for itself compared to the boost you would get from just running processes?

The thing about the end game is, while the turns take a long time there are few of them left in the game. So late game buildings have to pay for themselves very quickly, if they don't then they weren't worth building in the first place. Yes the new power plant is much stronger than the old one...but that's what you have to do to be worth building at that point in the game.

For example, I have always thought Nuclear Plants were really good. CrazyG challenged me on that, so in one of my recent games I actually did the math on how much benefit I got from the plant once the game ended (and this an actual game end, not theoretical). In that particular example, I only got 3 turns where the nuclear plant provided a net benefit (aka gave more hammers than its initial cost). I probably would have been better off working a process in that game. Now I don't think every game will be like that, I probably got the nuclear plant later than I should have....but it showcases how even a mighty +50% bonus can be weak when your dealing with the quickly ending late game.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

There a two things competing with the power plant:

1) Another plant, like the nuclear plant. Is the benefit worth the loss of a big boost in hammers?

2) Processes: Does the cost of the plant pay for itself compared to the boost you would get from just running processes?

The thing about the end game is, while the turns take a long time there are few of them left in the game. So late game buildings have to pay for themselves very quickly, if they don't then they weren't worth building in the first place. Yes the new power plant is much stronger than the old one...but that's what you have to do to be worth building at that point in the game.

For example, I have always thought Nuclear Plants were really good. CrazyG challenged me on that, so in one of my recent games I actually did the math on how much benefit I got from the plant once the game ended (and this an actual game end, not theoretical). In that particular example, I only got 3 turns where the nuclear plant provided a net benefit (aka gave more hammers than its initial cost). I probably would have been better off working a process in that game. Now I don't think every game will be like that, I probably got the nuclear plant later than I should have....but it showcases how even a mighty +50% bonus can be weak when your dealing with the quickly ending late game.

1) I don't have numbers now to compare and I can't remember when I've ever build a nuclear power plant. I think I always picked the Wind or Hydro plant, cause it gives other yields than hammers, which I have normally plenty in that stage of the game. Cause my cities are naturally always big, working 20 tiles is no rarity. So, this would be 20*4 = 80 hammers/science/gold per turn. With 25% from train station, you get 100 hammers per turn, paying it self after 25 turns. (I think a game is lasting longer than 25 turns, if you are able to build a wind plant) Together with enough science and gold from 10 merchants and 10 scientists. Other benefits are increased yields from modifiers (+%), fighting unhappiness of 3 types (distress, poverty, illiteracy).

2) If you convert 2500 hammers to science and gold, you would get 325 science and 325 gold. Thats something my personal wind plant would generate in only 4 turns. Even if you half the yields like in the previous version and half the amount of citizen working tiles, you would reach parity after only 16 turns (to be exactly, 14 turns, cause the additional hammers could be converted to science and gold too). So processes only is the worst option you could do.

The point with your nuclear plant is barely an arguement, cause the conditions are unknown.
Constructing Plants in small or extremly specialist focused cities is of course a method to minimize the effectiveness of such plants. The amount of hammers you need to build those stays the same, but a city with an already high amount of hammer generation (for solar/nuclear plant) or a big workforce (wind/hydro plant) deliver a very shortened payback time. Reading your game reports really with enjoyment, I think your the kind of player which stops the growth of cities relative early, which makes the impact of those power plants smaller than it could.