New Beta Version - September 15th (9-15)

[tu_79]

I will also throw in I have no idea how spies really work based on the UI. I throw in the spy and something I see it will take 10 turns to a steal a tech, and sometimes 100.

I know that the spy level, spy buildings, counterspies, and the number of tech I am behind make a difference, but I have no idea how strong each effect is.

We don't need to know the mechanics. It suffices with the UI saying what the expected effects are. We'll learn by doing.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

A bit late, but wanted to post two observations/questions regarding this version:
1.) I had open borders with Sweden who had some of its troops in my territory. At some point Songhai bribed Sweden to go to war with me. Those units remained in my territory, free to pillage my caravans etc. Is this intended?
2.) I was playing a very defensive minded game, but I realized/think that I was getting war weariness even from killing hostile units in my own territory and without losing any of my own. Is this possible and/or intended?

1. It's atleast no bug and in some way intended. I think it's this way cause pushing enemy units out of others territory is a bit bugged and sometimes lead to the deletion of those units. So this is the easiest solution. But I may be also wrong.
2. Intended. Not only killing but also damaging the enemy causes war weariness by 50% of the amount the enemy get.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

Thanks for the reply.

1.) That seems open to exploitation by the human player -> get open borders with a civ, set your units to an attacking position within those borders, ask around if anyone's willing to pay you to go to war with that civ or something like that...

2.) That seems counter-intuitive and I don't see what purpose it serves within the game. I mean, why I am being punished for solely defending my country without losing any troops? Why should my population be unhappy over killing the invaders? I'd understand war weariness if the war started to last too long with me winning and not accepting a truce or war weariness from losing my own units or from killing/damaging units in foreign countries (i.e. the public wouldn't like me being an aggressor), but not from this. Or at least I'd wish it were significantly lower than the "normal" war weariness.

 

[tu_79]

Thanks for the reply.

1.) That seems open to exploitation by the human player -> get open borders with a civ, set your units to an attacking position within those borders, ask around if anyone's willing to pay you to go to war with that civ or something like that...

2.) That seems counter-intuitive and I don't see what purpose it serves within the game. I mean, why I am being punished for solely defending my country without losing any troops? Why should my population be unhappy over killing the invaders? I'd understand war weariness if the war started to last too long with me winning and not accepting a truce or war weariness from losing my own units or from killing/damaging units in foreign countries (i.e. the public wouldn't like me being an aggressor), but not from this. Or at least I'd wish it were significantly lower than the "normal" war weariness.

Really? Would you stand impassive seeing how your people massacre other people?

 

[LifeOfBrian]

If I'm only killing/damaging the invaders of my country on my home soil without losing any of my soldiers, why should my people have (big) war weariness instead of cheering me on for successfully defending my homeland?

 

[Stalker0]

If someone can recall the thread, we had a long discussion around it, and there were good arguments made for the current mechanic.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

Thanks, I'd appreciate the link if anyone can post it here. It really punishes the defending civilizations. In my last game, I had Songhai, Sweden and Mongolia constantly ganging up on me, and I was suffering from war weariness despite not losing any units, which made the game even more frustrating.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Just peeked at code - that's because Firaxis decided to put the espionage code for elections in the minor civ code (whatever), and they didn't include any level up code in there. I'll fix.

G

I knew there was something off, so thank you for confirming and addressing it. Is this a potential hotfix that's save game compatible, or will it have to wait to be implemented in the next release?

 

[Gazebo]

I knew there was something off, so thank you for confirming and addressing it. Is this a potential hotfix that's save game compatible, or will it have to wait to be implemented in the next release?

hotfixable, but not at the moment. I’m indisposed.
G