New challenge: earliest possible UHVs

[Tigranes]

Mmm, yes I see what you mean. The title of Tigranes' post had VV 1575AD but the screenshot does show 1675AD with the 16K gold.

Yes, I am sorry, for some reason I was thinking that I am making 16000 gold few turns before 1600 AD deadline But the deadline is 1700 AD

 

[AnotherPacifist]

So Tigranes, have you tried the Hundred Years' War technique on a 3000BC England start? (probably much harder if not impossible, depending on how many flipped barbs France gets).
I was wondering how you got your galley to go to Pagan since the Arabs most like had triremes (or even caravels) and you would have to declare war to get through their waters. (Maybe you outran them with navi1 and 2 and movement 1 and 2?)

 

[blizzrd]

Don't be afraid of Arabian triremes. I've declared war to get past Saladin towards India with my galley many times and I don't think I've ever even seen a trireme try to follow me. Saladin uses triremes to scout anyways, so chances are you already passed the trireme somewhere along the coast of Africa.

 

[Tigranes]

I was wondering how you got your galley to go to Pagan since the Arabs most like had triremes (or even caravels) and you would have to declare war to get through their waters. (Maybe you outran them with navi1 and 2 and movement 1 and 2?)

It's actually just Morale (movement 1) and Navigation 1 and 2. Yes, that's exactly what I did that time -- parked next to their borders and sailed for my life next turn. No one chased me that time.

Right now I am a little busy with America (check my bug report, if you will). I think AMerica's VV would be the hardest to document properly among the all VVs.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Can't seem to break the 1600 AD point. Decided to found Paris/Versailles (with a great engineer which built the Forbidden Palace, whipped the Wat Preah Pisnulok, and a bombed artist, so culture is at 8500 now) AFTER Metz, which turned out not so good because of proximity to Paris. But Copenhagen was a good commercial town. (Now if we can only have a Roman road linking Bona Mansio and Paris one can found Constance as the capital AND get a German city out of the way...)

I think one optimization is to get a great spy first since I never needed the great engineer from Bordeaux to build Notre Dame (built in 6 moves in Madrid) and steal guilds/engineering from the Dutch. I ended up wasting 5 turns getting guilds myself.

Spoiler :

 

[Tigranes]

AP. I love you culture corridor between Holland and Germany! And poor Spanish Bourbons. I am really stunned by the amount of games you generate per week . Did the work and family ever slowed you down ?

 

[Virdrago]

You scare me sometimes, AP. I'm working on a French 3000BC and I'm still discovering Astronomy in the late 1500's...

 

[AnotherPacifist]

You scare me sometimes, AP. I'm working on a French 3000BC and I'm still discovering Astronomy in the late 1500's...

France 3000BC start is mostly impossible in my opinion, because of the AI gunning for Notre Dame well before 1000AD on at least the last 10 tries I made. It also suffers from too many razed cities if Rome doesn't do well, and sometimes even Aix-la-Chapelle gets built and flips to the Dutch! (It really shouldn't, and if it should flip it should go to the Germans instead since it's the place where HRE crowns its emperors). Lyon is terrible as a city (can't grow since it's not on the coast). So I congratulate you on still playing for UHV with 3000BC France.

On the other hand, I'm getting quite an interesting 3000 BC British game here which I'll probably finish today...(Thank God the Greeks are dead)

 

[rjaco31]

Well, in my opinion, in order to take a good start as France, you just have to crush Spain as soon as possible. Otherwise, they will just be a thorn in your feet for the whole game, they can basically attack you and you only. Beside, Spain gives you way more space and nice cities.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Yup, this is what I've been doing since it's much harder to kill Germany now. Spain needs more units to start (maybe an extra axeman). German land is so much better with commerce but you can make up for it by getting Rome earlier with fast unit-building in Madrid.
But even so, all the flipped barbs won't help the 3000 BC French start if somebody builds Notre Dame in 820 AD. (that was the earliest I've seen with this patch) The problem is that there is at least one civ that is spared by the Great Wall and has enough infrastructure/tech to build it way before 1000 AD, be it China, Rome, Persia or Greece.

 

[ThurinEthir]

I'm laughing in my little corner, watching you masters of RFC (no sarcasm there, you guys seriously are way better than me) "complain" about 3000 BC starts.
Because you know, I don't think there's a 600 AD start in the Warlords version.
Although I also face no Portugal or Dutch (nor Khmer, Maya, Ethiopia...), so I suppose that makes it a bit easier. Also, I think the requirements were changed for Notre Dame, from music (in Warlords) to engineering (in BtS). I think the AI goes for engineering before music, so I suppose that's the main problem - perhaps Rhye can somehow change it back to Music? It makes some sense, and with Music, you might get the free GA and thus get a head start on the culture goal with Paris. (Just to make you guys feel better though, I don't get to play around with Great Spies and things like that. )

From what I gather, the ideal start would be Bordeaux flipping, an Independent/barbarian Rome (or a Roman Empire about to collapse, and perhaps some barbs flipping as well. Conquer Spain and Rome, and you've got a very nice starting empire. Last time I tried this, and I beelined music (got the free GA), popped a GE out of Bordeaux, and built Notre Dame.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The problem with making Notre Dame go back to Music is that the Chinese have to start out with it in the 600 AD start for its cathedrals, and since the AI never goes for the UHV, it'll no doubt build it before France has a chance to research it.

For the 600 AD start, the Dutch and Portuguese are your friends since they make researching Engineering much cheaper. In fact, with this patch it is possible to steal Engineering from the Dutch and build it around 1200 AD without the help of a great engineer; just spawn a great spy and get both guilds and engineering. (You're of course gambling on the Byzantines and Chinese not to do it first)

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I'm not a micromanager for long boat trips to Asia and Australia, so this could have been a little better. I had actually tried this out on a 600 AD start and gotten 1545 (just about the same as Tigranes' record), except that this time Russia declared war on me twice (despite being Buddhist like me and I was nice to them)--last time I was able to open borders with them from the start and send 3 settlers towards central Asia, thus saving 1 boat trip.

First 2 settlers and all longbowmen go to Poland/Ukraine for maximal land without war (France had some flipped barbs). My original plan was to see if the Greeks are alive, and if so, steal techs from them. But they had collapsed, so I conquered Byzantion and got Temple of Artemis (which gave me a great merchant, just in time for the final push for Electricity/radio with a trip to Parsa). Reval and Kiev of course have plenty of production, so I wasn't afraid of the Germans or Russians, and they could easily produce 3 settlers IF the Russians weren't so belligerent.

Europe was without religion until 1000 AD when Buddhism and Islam appeared. I got Buddhism first and by mistake, a great engineer had spawned. So I built the AP myself (it was that or the Forbidden Palace or Hagia Sophia, since I was close to finishing Sankore and Spiral Minaret). A very lucky event converted 4 of my cities to Buddhism.

Persia was super strong this round, having reconquered nearly all of Asia Minor, enough for Turkey to collapse. Japan was the only contender for Liberalism, having just learned Education the turn I got Liberalism for Radio. Japan also got the conquerors before me and nearly beat me to circumnavigation (I purposefully did not sell them an early map since I deduced they had collapsed China and gotten a lot of good cities).

Spoiler :

 

[TDK]

Okay so I didn't finish it yet. I bet I have to show that I can get 12 OB's in 1650 and not lose my capital, but so far so good.
In this game I sailed for Alexandria with 2 Longbows+2 Crossbows. I wanted the Glib for a scientist for early Optics and - more importantly - the Great Lighthouse.
This Combo proved extremely powerful because I got early cities in America and trade routes to pay for them(5 star economy rating!?).

 

[blizzrd]

Okay so I didn't finish it yet. I bet I have to show that I can get 12 OB's in 1650 and not lose my capital, but so far so good.

But yes you will need to show the actual UHV screen. I think it might be 13 OB agreements? (Can't check from here at the moment).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

And no, I'm not playing Viceroy. See the strategy thread for how I did this.

All cities in America were founded in 1 turn and liberated to Aztecs. (Montreal, on the copper, was vital since Inca wasn't so hot in working the copper)

London and Dublin probably speeded up my research by about 100 years. I generated no less than 7 (!) great scientists (including from physics) that I just researched SC/physics/electricity in less than 6 moves, and radio was by liberalism.

This is the first time that I built the Eiffel Tower before the Statue of Liberty (it was whipped the same move in Metz, which was about 17 pop before).

Unfortunately, if you really want to be strict, Paris isn't the most cultural city, but with Bordeaux just about to finish the Opera House (and just spawned a great engineer which was just pure bad luck since it was 80% chance to be a great artist), the rest of the game, every city I had can just spawn great artists to feed Paris, and also I have the Sistine Chapel, so I can just let Paris get all the food resources and assign artists. I don't feel that should delay my VV. (in fact, I used the engineer for Cristo Redentor in Paris, even before there's a forge there!)

Spoiler :

 

[blizzrd]

Unfortunately, if you really want to be strict, Paris isn't the most cultural city, but with Bordeaux just about to finish the Opera House (and just spawned a great engineer which was just pure bad luck since it was 80% chance to be a great artist), the rest of the game, every city I had can just spawn great artists to feed Paris, and also I have the Sistine Chapel, so I can just let Paris get all the food resources and assign artists. I don't feel that should delay my VV. (in fact, I used the engineer for Cristo Redentor in Paris, even before there's a forge there!)

I guess this is good enough for me.

 

[Tigranes]

I guess this is good enough for me.

I don't want to spoil the party , but the very essence of virtual victory requires to register the win for the turn when Paris actually has the most culture in the world. I mean no one questions that at 1700 AD Paris will be there with the most culture in the world. But the year as it is right now is the year for the two UHVs, not for all 3 .

 

[Wessel V1]

I have to agree with Tigranes although 1540 AD is absolutely magnificent. I could as well say that I have a VV as the Dutch in 920 AD since nobody can ever stop me from winning (that is exaggerated of course but you get my point), but that's not the point of a VV, or what I meant in my post back then. I know that this is not my challenge, but I'd keep it off the list at the moment. It shouldn't be that hard to change the strategy again to fit in a GA I think.

 

[Tigranes]

Obviously can be improved greatly. It's the first time I am actually finishing my America game in RFC. Philadelphia-Boston tandem proves to be a better choice than Washington-New York. Less overlaps with Chicago and each other. I did wait for the flip on Turn 3, I got my workers, but no troops when England declared on me. So, I guess, there is nothing perfect under the sun, one of the rare cases when AI found Philadelphia, but no troops.

Without extra troops and England focusing colonization efforts only on American continent the war proved to be very long (I got 3 Great Generals with England) and very unlucky. My Combat 3 Galleon died with 91% winning odds against the English Caravel. Warlord Cannon died despite all the promotions. Because I never reload and don't even keep autosaves this was a very serious blow. The Spain should of been next, but she collapsed. My vassal Aztecs collapsed too, just before discovering a tech for me, which was very strange, as their stability sign was never showing "Collapsing" (always flat!) and I was treating them really nice.

After all these wars I finally got my UN at 1906. Unfortunately, started to chase the Oil too late. Instead of Gulf War, conquered and culture bombed Chechen Itza, took the Oil from Portugal/Brazil, founded cities in Nigeria, Brunei, Livia's desert (Egypt was my vassal), Venezuela and was about to get the Oil in Algeria from Carthage, when I discovered that I already have 10 Oils . Too bad for poor Carthage, which had to be killed in order to satisfy American greed.

Strangely, France and Arabia never respawned. Another strange thing was the absence of Temple of Kukulkan in Chechen Itza . I mean Gunpowder cancels the effect of the Temple, but the building itself shall be there, right?

Spoiler :