New civ : Dagda's Tears

[sylvain5477]

EDIT 2: Here we go. Landscapes since the leader/civ/whatever is a landscape. All the work of Daniel Dociu; his style seems to fit.
A more crystalline aesthetic. Normally, I'd say FfH should stay the Nine Hells away from crystals, but when they're world-devouring abominations... the use of a great, big, cold crystal might help emphasize the inhumanity of the Tears. That said, you do seem to be aiming more for "blobby" than "crystalline." Consider this a wildcard.
Might be a bit too red-and-black, but the identifiable facial features make it a bit more leader-y.
A more organic feel, gives a more fungal-hive-mind feel.
Big glowy blue thing. Looks like a tear. My personal recommendation.

Whoa, I didn't see your sugestions, and so I haven't understood Warkirby message as well. Sorry!

I rather like the last one, but I'll wait for first release to get more opinions before changing my mind

Thank you very much for them. May I ask how you manage to find them ?
Emphasis can be made on either the crash from heaven or the blobby thing for the portrait I think.

 

[WarKirby]

I mainly like the crystalline one, because dagda makes me think of clarity. being the perfect neutral god, it seems like things representing him should be devoid of color. So muted, semi translucent crystals, fit the feeling this race gives me.

Also, there's the romantic connection between tears and crystals.

 

[sylvain5477]

Well well well...

I'm thinking about it and the link between the current unit graphics and the portrait

 

[sylvain5477]

I mainly like the crystalline one, because dagda makes me think of clarity. being the perfect neutral god, it seems like things representing him should be devoid of color. So muted, semi translucent crystals, fit the feeling this race gives me.

Also, there's the romantic connection between tears and crystals.

I'm starting to fall in love with this idea, but I'm afraid about the consequences concerning the art thing for the units.
I'm currently using the Tar demon effect which I manipulate to create a range of units with different skins and sizes. I'll have to check whether I can add shards of crytal under the effect with a skin instead of the current great Prophet. I'll give it a try (but help is welcome )

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

I'm currently using the Tar demon effect which I manipulate to create a range of units with different skins and sizes.

why dont you mix in some variations of the water elemental? especially for the hero to make him more unique, and maybe for the sadness tears cause theyre more liquidy

 

[sylvain5477]

Finally I think I will focus first on the mecanics and then, once I release the first version I'll think of perfecting the graphics while people tell me about what they like/dislike

 

[Aoleleb]

I'm forcefully reminded of the Hamidon and the Devouring Earth from City of Heroes. Anyone else getting that?

I do like the idea though. Soulless abominations seeking the destruction of... Wait a minute have we done this before?

No really, I like it.

 

[FireBlaze]

I'm forcefully reminded of the Hamidon and the Devouring Earth from City of Heroes. Anyone else getting that?

I do like the idea though. Soulless abominations seeking the destruction of... Wait a minute have we done this before?

No really, I like it.

Felt more like an army of Hammy's IMO

 

[Fanghorn]

I have one question. Is it possible to convert that bareland back into terrain other civs can settle/survive on?

 

[sylvain5477]

I have one question. Is it possible to convert that bareland back into terrain other civs can settle/survive on?

No way.
That's the spirit.
Kill the Tears quickly or the land is wasted (and potentially roaming with barbarians).

 

[KillerClowns]

No way.
That's the spirit.
Kill the Tears quickly or the land is wasted (and potentially roaming with barbarians).

Here are the possibilities I see for Barelands Restoration:
1. Spring/Vitalize/Genesis turns it into desert. Too easy, IMHO, listed for completeness.
2. Only Vitalize and Genesis have any effect, again, turning it into desert.
3. Only Genesis has the above barelands-to-desert effect, with the added kicker that you have to have settled on the barelands to be converted already (a tough proposition). Don't like this one.
4. Upon destroying Dagda's tears, a ritual becomes available that turns all barelands into desert, or maybe plains if the ritual is really expensive (keep the Malakim from performing their happy-dance too earnestly) and scatters some resources about it. I'm thinking it could also require Commune with Nature.
5. Your idea: barelands are utterly beyond restoration.
One last thing: Unless you edit it to force otherwise, the Illians will have less to worry about with regards to Barelands the newest part of their ice-covered, food-producing dominion. And what are you plans regarding Barelands and Hell terrain?

 

[Randomness]

I think barelands to desert is okay if it is in a ritual of sorts, but the resources shouldn't come back (letting them go too long should have a penalty...). If the barelands can't be removed, they shouldn't start at game beginning. Mid to early-late game start would be good for them if that is the case...

 

[sylvain5477]

Here are the possibilities I see for Barelands Restoration:
1. Spring/Vitalize/Genesis turns it into desert. Too easy, IMHO, listed for completeness.

Agreed, much too simple.

2. Only Vitalize and Genesis have any effect, again, turning it into desert.

Still too easy and like usual.

3. Only Genesis has the above barelands-to-desert effect, with the added kicker that you have to have settled on the barelands to be converted already (a tough proposition). Don't like this one.

A bit too hard I would think.

4. Upon destroying Dagda's tears, a ritual becomes available that turns all barelands into desert, or maybe plains if the ritual is really expensive (keep the Malakim from performing their happy-dance too earnestly) and scatters some resources about it. I'm thinking it could also require Commune with Nature.

That may be an idea. Maybe once the ritual is completed in the world, the bareland start to slowly, starting from the outside border to fill with water/plains depending on adjacent tiles.

5. Your idea: barelands are utterly beyond restoration.

I like that one, but once the Tears have been destroyed, it's nice to help the world heal.

One last thing: Unless you edit it to force otherwise, the Illians will have less to worry about with regards to Barelands the newest part of their ice-covered, food-producing dominion.

Yes, I intend to block the python for that one.

And what are you plans regarding Barelands and Hell terrain?

Currently, bareland stays bareland in hell condition. I'll think of something later (or you'll think it for me ? )

Thanks for your suggestions/interest.
I'm on work leave to London this week so no time to progress, but I'll be back this WE, and we should see some progress.

 

[sylvain5477]

I think barelands to desert is okay if it is in a ritual of sorts, but the resources shouldn't come back (letting them go too long should have a penalty...). If the barelands can't be removed, they shouldn't start at game beginning. Mid to early-late game start would be good for them if that is the case...

What you don't yet realize (because I haven't release yet, my mistake !) is that the bareland transformation is not very fast. It starts very slowly and then accelerate, but it is never very fast, so before mid game the bareland should still be little.
Indeed a tie becomes bareland only after the culture of the Tears have spread, a improvement has been built and the a city has worked the tile for around 10 turns I think, knowing that Tear's cities are size 1 up to 3 with difficulties (jump to 9 end of mid game).
So it should have the effect you wish I think.

 

[Fanghorn]

the conversion of coastal and ocean tiles still seems to be a problem to me as there will be a lot that needs to get converted before you get 100% even on an average erebus map(even 60% of thw whole map is more than 60% of the land mass). Also considering your description it seems that the conversion speed of a single tile is always the same just the whole world vconversions grows faster and faster with the amount of tear-cities/tear-production.

 

[FireBlaze]

The best part about the barelands is defiantly how it also converts water tiles. That's a pretty cool affect, and it would be interesting to have a land bridge between continents that was made by them. However, that also brings up the question of what happens to bareland tiles that were made from ocean tiles. When the tears die, do they stay there, revert back to coast/ocean, or do they just revert to normal tiles? This is also assuming that you can actually turn barelands back into normal.

 

[sylvain5477]

the conversion of coastal and ocean tiles still seems to be a problem to me as there will be a lot that needs to get converted before you get 100% even on an average erebus map(even 60% of thw whole map is more than 60% of the land mass).

what is the problem ? It will be slow but remember that the real goal of civ is to take over the world, not necessarily the whole map absorbed (that can be done once no one is alive, outside the real game isn't it). I actually haven't play a game to the end as te late game is not yet concieved, but I can imagine that as I indicated, the late game conversion rate will dramatically increase however.

Also considering your description it seems that the conversion speed of a single tile is always the same just the whole world vconversions grows faster and faster with the amount of tear-cities/tear-production.

Exactly. And with the size of Tears cities (number of worked tiles) which increases with science (new buildings).

The best part about the barelands is defiantly how it also converts water tiles. That's a pretty cool affect, and it would be interesting to have a land bridge between continents that was made by them.

It regularly happens, even on the 100 turns game displayed in the first post you can see it.

However, that also brings up the question of what happens to bareland tiles that were made from ocean tiles. When the tears die, do they stay there, revert back to coast/ocean, or do they just revert to normal tiles? This is also assuming that you can actually turn barelands back into normal.

What I'm imagining now is that the revert won't be linked directly to how it was before becoming bareland but more like how are the tiles now. I'm imagining that for when a tile change to convert will be linked to the number of non bareland tile around it (the more the faster) and the nature of the tile after conversion linked to the proportion of each category of tile. But the detail are still to be written. Currently no way to revert bareland to working tiles.

 

[Fanghorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fanghorn
the conversion of coastal and ocean tiles still seems to be a problem to me as there will be a lot that needs to get converted before you get 100% even on an average erebus map(even 60% of thw whole map is more than 60% of the land mass).

what is the problem ? It will be slow but remember that the real goal of civ is to take over the world, not necessarily the whole map absorbed (that can be done once no one is alive, outside the real game isn't it). I actually haven't play a game to the end as te late game is not yet concieved, but I can imagine that as I indicated, the late game conversion rate will dramatically increase however.

I just fear that it can be really hard on some maps to get very far with the tears. If there will really be this Aifons Civ for example ...

 

[sylvain5477]

I just fear that it can be really hard on some maps to get very far with the tears. If there will really be this Aifons Civ for example ...

Actually, when a Tear city is booming (developping with good production), its culture progress is high, meaning that it should be able to menace any empire with absorbing/destruction.

But we'll see together when I release. I will make things evolve afterwards to balance.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i wonder how the AI handles the tears. have you played any games against the tears yet?
and what happens if there are more than one tears civ?