New film version of Dune to be made :)

I read the director's views on this, and he simply made Kynes female because he felt that the cast had a lack of female characters.

You should always cast based on the demands of the story and not the audience, so to me this seems like a mistake. It doesn't seem like a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but it makes a lot less sense in terms of the internal logical consistency of the story, and Dune fanatics are going to notice that.

I keep reading how this is the director's passion project, but you've got to question his dedication to the original story here. I don't mind characters switching genders, but I do when it doesn't really make sense from a story-telling pov. It seems that there were plenty of other characters that could have been made female here, so that you'd end up with a larger female presence in terms of the actors on set. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a female leading the Fremen, but the more I read about it, the more it seems that the Fremen would not have accepted this nearly as easily as me, and there must have been *something* that lead them to doing so. i.e. this movie now has to explain the why, and that was never a part of the original story, and to me that's bad storytelling. I'm going to go in with an open mind - maybe they weave this into the existing story nicely, but it seems doubtful, since the story apparently did not figure into this decision at all.
 
I read the director's views on this, and he simply made Kynes female because he felt that the cast had a lack of female characters.
As I said, he's an idiot.

Jessica
Alia
Margot, Lady Fenring
Shadout Mapes
Reverend Mother Mohiam
Chani
Harah
Princess Irulan
Reverend Mother Ramallo

All of these are strong female characters. Villeneuve deleted Irulan from this first movie and shoehorned Chani into the narrator's role, which is definitely not in keeping with the novel. Irulan is a historian. Chani is not. You can't even say that Chani is a keeper of Fremen history, because while she was tapped as a potential Reverend Mother, she never went through the Water of Life ceremony, and therefore she has no access to her Other Memories.

You should always cast based on the demands of the story and not the audience, so to me this seems like a mistake. It doesn't seem like a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but it makes a lot less sense in terms of the internal logical consistency of the story, and Dune fanatics are going to notice that.

I keep reading how this is the director's passion project, but you've got to question his dedication to the original story here. I don't mind characters switching genders, but I do when it doesn't really make sense from a story-telling pov. It seems that there were plenty of other characters that could have been made female here, so that you'd end up with a larger female presence in terms of the actors on set. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a female leading the Fremen, but the more I read about it, the more it seems that the Fremen would not have accepted this nearly as easily as me, and there must have been *something* that lead them to doing so. i.e. this movie now has to explain the why, and that was never a part of the original story, and to me that's bad storytelling. I'm going to go in with an open mind - maybe they weave this into the existing story nicely, but it seems doubtful, since the story apparently did not figure into this decision at all.
I look at Dune partly from the perspective of cultural anthropology. Frank Herbert did an excellent job of translating feudal and tribal customs and politics to a science fiction epic set 20,000 years in the future.

Women are never naibs (tribal leaders) among the Fremen because one of the duties of a naib is to lead the tribe in war, either against offworld enemies (Harkonnens and smugglers) or against other tribes (if necessary). Women are too precious to risk in that level of warfare, given that they are the means by which the tribe's number increases. It doesn't mean they're not fierce fighters when necessary - it just means that they don't go to war and they don't get to be the naib.

The Dune Encyclopedia mentions that this protective attitude toward the women of the sietch is partly due to what happened when the Fremen (formerly the Zensunni Wanderers) were taken to Arrakis. Water and moisture have to be guarded so carefully, and the women among them were suddenly faced with having to do this while coping with menstruation. I'm not trying to make anyone uncomfortable here, but the fact is that women lose a lot more body fluids - including water - during this time of the month, and many of the Fremen women were unable to replenish that fast enough. They died, and so the rest of them had to figure out how not to let this happen.

According to the Encyclopedia, a change in diet and a gradual shift over the millennia among the female half of the Fremen resulted in a longer cycle and less blood loss during those times. And with extremely careful water discipline, the Fremen women coped.

So when Lynch had Harah among the fighters, that was wrong. Harah is a strong-willed woman and not at all cowardly, but she would not have been out there fighting with the men against the Harkonnens. Chani shouldn't have been, either, but I guess we know that Chani makes her own rules.


Fremen patriarchal customs aren't the only reason Liet-Kynes being female is ridiculous. A woman in that position would never have been accepted by Shaddam IV and his government. If you're a woman and want authority in the Imperium, you have to be Bene Gesserit, be from one of the planets where women rule, or at least have some measure of power, or (rarely) the head of your House. Or you could go into business, but that doesn't mean you get power at the level that Liet-Kynes had.

Villeneuve doesn't seem to understand any of this. His decision might please himself, but it's not in keeping with the novel and if he's making out that this movie respects the source material, he's lying.
 
It's a movie folks. It's purpose is to entertain an audience and make money by bringing a book to life on a screen.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, but it's supposedly the director's "passion" and "work of a lifetime" or whatever. He's supposed to care about the original story and has said he is trying to stick to the original subject matter as best as possible.

It's fair to criticize him for this, since it seems to contradict all of that
 
horrible memories of Abrams being a fan of Star Wars ? Is Disney involved with nuDune ?
 
Dune debut on Friday

VENICE — Denis Villeneuve, the director of “Dune,” wanted to apologize in advance.

“This will be a long answer,” he said, “because of the Champagne.”

We were at the Hotel Excelsior on Wednesday night for the lavish opening-night dinner of the Venice Film Festival, where the bubbly flowed freely, guests like Isabelle Huppert and Jane Campion supped on pink prawn tartare, and a wide array of major films — including “Dune,” Ridley Scott’s “The Last Duel,” the Princess Diana drama “Spencer” and Campion’s “The Power of the Dog” — all waited to make splashy debuts on the Lido over the next week and a half.

Though Venice was one of the few major film festivals to mount an in-person edition in 2020, this year’s program is significantly more robust. Many consider Venice to be the kickoff to awards season, an expectation goosed even further by the presence on the Venice jury of the last two auteurs to direct best-picture winners: Chloé Zhao, whose “Nomadland” premiered here last year, and the “Parasite” director Bong Joon Ho, the jury president.

Will Villeneuve’s “Dune” be that kind of contender? The sci-fi drama, adapted from the Frank Herbert novel, has loftier aspirations and a more refined eye than most would-be blockbusters. Villeneuve (whose credits include “Arrival” and “Blade Runner 2049”) will debut “Dune” on Friday with a starry cast expected to show up to the premiere, including the lead Timothée Chalamet, who arrived in Venice via speedboat on Wednesday.

At dinner, Villeneuve told me Venice is “the perfect way to launch the movie and it’s the first time that I’ve had time to really finish — usually, I’m finishing movies and then releasing them three days later.”

Instead, the French Canadian director has had the better part of a year to tinker, as “Dune” was supposed to come out in November 2020 before a pandemic-induced delay. Now, on the verge of its Venice premiere (and with a release date rescheduled for Oct. 22), Villeneuve talked about “Dune” almost as if he were a proud, anxious parent about to send his young child off to school.

“I think it has a soul,” he said. “I recognize myself in it. It’s my biggest project and still, I have the most intimate relationship with it. I know it can walk by itself, but what will other people think?”

Villeneuve paused. “How do I say it in English?” he wondered, before finding the words: “I just have to let it go.”
 
It's a movie folks. It's purpose is to entertain an audience and make money by bring a book to life on a screen.
Except by making pointless changes, he isn't bringing the book to life. He's bringing fanfiction to life. Genderswapping is one subgenre of fanfic I don't usually care for, although I am following a HP story in which James and Lily Potter had a daughter instead of a son, named her Violet, and she ran away from the abusive Dursleys. By the time the Wizarding World catches up to her, she's been living on the streets for years and has no intention of becoming the savior of that world by defeating Voldemort. That's the only one, though.

Of course I'm not dissing fanfiction as a genre. After all, that's the genre I write in for all my NaNoWriMo entries, and there are many fanfiction writers who are as good as the original author/creator of the work they write about. I've seen Alliance-Union-Cyteen stories so true to the source material that C.J. Cherryh could have written them herself.

There are some fanfiction stories that I sincerely wish could have been made into movies or TV episodes or miniseries. Fans of the Marauder era of the Harry Potter franchise have a treasure trove of wonderful Marauder-centric stories on fanfiction.net, AO3, and Wattpad. J.K. Rowling created these characters and then thoughtlessly killed them off, and at least one of the HP movie directors ignored Sirius Black as much as possible (Goblet of Fire; he appears only as a face in the fireplace, not living in a cave overlooking Hogsmeade). The fanfiction writers took these characters and have fleshed them out in so many possible ways and subgenres.

But at least most of the fanfic authors stay true to the source material and if they go off-track, they post a note saying they're going off-track or the story is AU. For people who haven't seen the trailers or read any interviews about this new Dune movie, some of them who are very familiar with the novel are going to wonder WTH is wrong with the director, gender-swapping Liet-Kynes and having the Fedaykin wear that ridiculous armor (which must require a hell of a lot of maintenance to get the sand out of it).

Sorry (not really), but my own experience in live theatre and in the SCA tells me that it's not enough to make something look pretty or cool or whatever. You have to make it practical, as well, which is why when you design a costume you make it easy for the actor to go to the bathroom while wearing it, you make it so the actor can move in it, and you make it as easy as possible to care for it (maintenance, cleaning, etc.). Otherwise, it might look cool to an audience but it's a headache for the person wearing it and who has to look after it.

(A friend I was rooming with at some of the SF conventions I went to designed a costume for herself and forgot one basic rule - the part about making it easy to go to the bathroom while wearing it. Partway through the party after the costume bacchanal on Saturday night she had to go to the bathroom and discovered that oops - she'd forgotten that part and had to strip most of her clothes off just to 'go.')

Yeah, but it's supposedly the director's "passion" and "work of a lifetime" or whatever. He's supposed to care about the original story and has said he is trying to stick to the original subject matter as best as possible.

It's fair to criticize him for this, since it seems to contradict all of that
Exactly.

As mentioned, both the Lynch movie and the miniseries had aspects to them that were exactly right and appropriate. Both had aspects to them that were godawful wrong and not appropriate.

I watched Thelma and Louise recently and was reminded of why Susan Sarandon is such a good actress. But you'd never know it, the way she hammed it up as Wencisia Corrino in the Children of Dune miniseries. For one thing, even 20 years ago she was too old to play that role. For another thing... WTH were the costume designers of those miniseries thinking? From Irulan's butterfly dress to that weird triangle thing Feyd was wearing to Wencisia's bizarre hair ornaments to Chani's Time Lord headdress...
gaah.gif
... at least they gave me fodder for Cheezburger lolpics. I will say that they got the stillsuits exactly right, as Frank Herbert described them. The Lynch movie and this movie (that appears to have copied the Lynch movie) doesn't get them remotely right.

The Lynch movie got most of its interior design spot-on perfect. Both Castle Caladan and the residence in Arrakeen actually look like places where people live. Sadly, Lynch didn't give Sietch Tabr the same treatment. The miniseries did a much better job with that.

So basically, if you're going to veer off from the source material, at least have a valid reason for it. "Just because" is not a valid reason. Gender-swapping because you like an actress and don't understand the original character and why they're important is not a valid reason.

Expanding the story? That's valid. In my own writing projects that are based on games I've done a lot of expanded worldbuilding. But it's plausible extrapolation from the source material. The Dune miniseries (both of them) plausibly expanded Irulan's character into more than just an occasional voiceover and political pawn. That's made the miniseries Irulan more sympathetic, as the book Irulan was rather cold and unlikable. Villeneuve seems determined to ignore Irulan and then claim that "there aren't enough female characters so I'm going to genderswap a male character so I can hire an actress I like."
 
Last edited:
Yeah, but it's supposedly the director's "passion" and "work of a lifetime" or whatever. He's supposed to care about the original story and has said he is trying to stick to the original subject matter as best as possible.

It's fair to criticize him for this, since it seems to contradict all of that
Nitpick all you like. :) Nonetheless, it is still just a movie and we will get his vision for it, whatever that means in 2021. He clearly wants it to be a success and that usually means "box office" dollars. I suspect his character manipulation is all about getting more audience by making sure that GenZ/Millennials are happy! I don't think that GenX or Boomers are his target; they are probably the only ones who have read the book. :lol:
 
Nitpick all you like. :) Nonetheless, it is still just a movie and we will get his vision for it, whatever that means in 2021. He clearly wants it to be a success and that usually means "box office" dollars. I suspect his character manipulation is all about getting more audience by making sure that GenZ/Millennials are happy! I don't think that GenX or Boomers are his target; they are probably the only ones who have read the book. :lol:

If the director tries to pander to some target audience, he should at least shy away from making claims about this being truer to the book ;)

I liked his District 9 movie. But I seriously doubt he will do well in adapting a famous book, and the aforementioned signs are anything but good.
I also don't like announcements like "work of a lifetime", when he is a young director not tied at all to Dune prior to this.
 
Last edited:
The Venice Premiere is Friday night.
 
Nitpick all you like. :) Nonetheless, it is still just a movie and we will get his vision for it, whatever that means in 2021. He clearly wants it to be a success and that usually means "box office" dollars. I suspect his character manipulation is all about getting more audience by making sure that GenZ/Millennials are happy! I don't think that GenX or Boomers are his target; they are probably the only ones who have read the book. :lol:
Ten years ago I was running a Dune forum called Arrakeen. The admin there was a young kid who'd started the forum when he was 12. He'd just started high school by the time he promoted me to the admin staff. I ended up running that place, and was among the oldest members (in chronological age).

As I recall, Baron of the Mice (the owner) was a pretty smart kid. He'd read the books and understood what he was talking about. Most of us did, though they had to explain some of God Emperor of Dune to me, as I had no idea what it was about, what with Leto II's constant rambling about the Golden Path.


There's another Dune project in the works. It's very much a KJA/BH thing, based on the Bene Gesserit. I don't remember what format it's supposed to be in. I just know that anything those two touch that's Dune-related will be awful.

If the director tries to pander to some target audience, he should at least shy away from making claims about this being truer to the book ;)
Exactly. By genderswapping Kynes and eliminating Irulan as the narrator, he is already making this farther from the book.
 
Well, I re-read the book last month, and I can say that gender-swapping Liet/Kynes is likely to be the least of my worries as a book fan. In fact, I can't think of any other character you could gender-swap without breaking the mood, and as some have pointed out, the very gender-defined roles Herbert deliberately built into his societies. Liet was an outlier, an outsider and not a naib or tribal leader in the traditional sense. Siezing on the myths that the Bene Gesserit had inoculated into Fremen culture centuries prior, he bent their prophesy to involve the greening of the planet. The power that Kynes wields is technocratic, not military, not treading on male territory. And as Liet the character's power is derived from spirituality, not military leadership. Again, no male egos need be crushed to make this happen. Chani is there for that. Lets not forget the Fremen gladly welcomed Jessica as a teacher of martial arts, too, before she was consecrated as Sayyadina. And Fremen society is in flux, dynamic, in fact it goes through a wrenching experience which serves, arguably, as the main source of tension in the next 2 books.

I would love a scene where female Liet and Lady Jessica talk about struggling for power and recognition in a patriarchal society. It would make sense. It would resonate with audience. This is not the enlightened future of Star Trek, it is a Galactic Dark Age.

Truly, what makes the book so unfilmable as a literal script is because so much of the story happens in character's heads. All the characters are hyper-aware, alert to falsehood, picking up clues from things unsaid. There is tension in every conversation in the book, characters spend so much time in a sort of pre-adrenaline state of observation, with communication by code word and hand sign a regular occurence.

Herbert uses several writing techniques to accomplish his monumental goals of building a world with a unique polity, economy, society and culture..and then turning that world upside down. But there's no narrative essays explaining this to the reader, instead we are fed little bits and pieces of how things work with quotes of texts from this fictional universe, from lessons the young Paul gets at the start of his journey to Arrakis, and in the thoughts of the characters which are sprinkled into conversations as italicized text. So when movie-makers resign themselves to using a narrator in order to speed up and dumb down world-building, I don't care if it's Irulan or Chani it's just not good storytelling. Maybe it should be left as a book if directors can't grasp this fundamental importance of SF literature: we don't want to be spoon-fed, we want a text written as if we were part of the world the story takes place in, with clever clues to help us get up to speed with the rules of the world. I don't know that Dune can be made into a movie that is satisfyingly true to the text, to be honest, but I won't tell film makers that. I just don't think a narrative-heavy film is going to work for me. The revelation of the central idea to an SF novel is the part that seems to elude the "sci-fi" film industry. They replace that intellectual climax with an action-based one. Herbert gives us plenty of action, but it is much less determinant of the plot than the ideas and connections the characters make with their world and technology.

A spoiler-ish elaboration:
Spoiler :
SF literature gets to skimp on things like character depth because the genre isn't about characters its about ideas. So Herbert gives us remarkable characters in terms of their abilities and intelligence, and they do develop as characters with the challenges they face, but in 500 pages Herbert is, rightly, more devoted to tickling our intellect with his political, social, cultural and ecological ideas. In fact, the "sf" climax of the book comes right in the middle of the book, as Liet-Kynes is facing death alone in the desert and pondering the life cycle of the sandworm and it's crucial relationship with Spice. That is the Big Reveal for the reader, and the last puzzle piece in putting together this alien world, its relationship to the economy of the galactic empire, and the path ahead for the young exiled Duke with his army-in-waiting, the Fremen.
 
Nitpick all you like. :) Nonetheless, it is still just a movie and we will get his vision for it, whatever that means in 2021. He clearly wants it to be a success and that usually means "box office" dollars. I suspect his character manipulation is all about getting more audience by making sure that GenZ/Millennials are happy! I don't think that GenX or Boomers are his target; they are probably the only ones who have read the book. :lol:

He said himself why he made this change, and it's nothing to do with getting more people in the door. He just felt there weren't enough women in the cast, and that's as far as it goes. Not nitpicking, just sayin. I don't think female actors will attract or scare away any moviegoers really, except maybe like 1 guy and his friend. It's all about the content and the way the movie's written and put together. It's a significant enough change warranting a solid reimagining of parts of the story, so I'm just hoping it's done right. I still trust him, but his explanation is a bit flaky here, so we'll see
 
No, they're mistakes. And yes, the directors are clueless in some cases.

I speak from experience with directors, as I had some lulus of an argument with some of them in the theatre, from the perspective of what was and was not doable as far as properties were concerned (stuff characters handle or manipulate are props).

There was one director I worked with several times who had grandiose ideas that weren't practical from various standpoints, and she never liked it when I had to firmly tell her that we had to come up with an alternative plan. I'm talking about stuff like using a real, live monkey and goldfish on-stage in a production of Gypsy. She didn't get it that the nearest live monkey was probably in the Calgary Zoo and no, I don't think the zoo would lend us one for the duration of the show and in any case there was nobody on the crew who knew how to look after one. It would cost $$$$ anyway, which the theatre company could not spare for that one scene.

Ditto goldfish. No, the props crew were not prepared to keep live goldfish for the duration of the show, or expect the theatre maintenance people to feed them when we weren't there. So we substituted a rabbit. And by the end of the show, my crew and I were contemplating recipes for rabbit stew. And silently cursing the people who had supplied the dog, because they never took it out to do its business. We became dog walkers in the few minutes' time we'd ordinarily have to catch a bit of a rest. (it's true - children and animals are frustrating to work with, unless you get a cooperative child).

One of the kids in The King & I was very cooperative and pleasant; he later played a pirate in Peter Pan and dropped a revolver we'd borrowed from an antique seller. On stage. As in the gun fell, skittered across the stage, and fell into the orchestra pit. The audience loved it; they realized it had to be a mistake, but the actor playing Captain Hook improvised a line that worked. I was sitting in the audience that night; I always did that at least once, to make sure everything was being used correctly, or if there was something I'd been doing wrong and needed to fix. At intermission I went backstage and the kid who'd dropped the gun spent the next 5 minutes apologizing profusely. I told him I'd see if it needed fixing (it did), and to be extremely careful for the rest of the show, as the gun was borrowed. Then he apologized for a couple more minutes.

Then there was the time the director of Peter Pan wanted arrows arcing over the stage. I vetoed it as being unsafe (the stage crew in the wings could have been seriously injured). Then they wanted live fireworks for the "bomb" Captain Hook was going to use. I contacted the fire department, explained this, and asked if it would be allowed (a permit would be needed). They said absolutely not, and were surprised when I thanked them and said they'd given me exactly the answer I needed to take to the director: The fire department said no, due to safety reasons. We'd need to come up with a compromise... which we did. It looked okay, and since this was a children's fantasy story, it didn't need to be as realistic as the director wanted, anyway.

I read the director's views on this, and he simply made Kynes female because he felt that the cast had a lack of female characters.

You should always cast based on the demands of the story and not the audience, so to me this seems like a mistake. It doesn't seem like a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but it makes a lot less sense in terms of the internal logical consistency of the story, and Dune fanatics are going to notice that.

I keep reading how this is the director's passion project, but you've got to question his dedication to the original story here. I don't mind characters switching genders, but I do when it doesn't really make sense from a story-telling pov. It seems that there were plenty of other characters that could have been made female here, so that you'd end up with a larger female presence in terms of the actors on set. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a female leading the Fremen, but the more I read about it, the more it seems that the Fremen would not have accepted this nearly as easily as me, and there must have been *something* that lead them to doing so. i.e. this movie now has to explain the why, and that was never a part of the original story, and to me that's bad storytelling. I'm going to go in with an open mind - maybe they weave this into the existing story nicely, but it seems doubtful, since the story apparently did not figure into this decision at all.

We're not talking about small-time directors here. And gender-swapping Liet is probably the most insignificant of significant deviations from the book. It could be the perfect way to make a point or to set up for a great scene without altering the substance too much. I mean, the thing about well-known auteurs is they tend to have their own vision. That could be bad news for fans, but it could also result in something that's excellent in more ways than just an acted-out copy of the original work, and which could be appreciated by people other than existing fans.

I'm a fan of Dune, but this is no biggie to me. It really isn't that important at this point to all but the most stubborn fans. If they made Liet a black man, you can be sure there would be angry fans as well. It's almost at a Biblical literalist level of nitpicking. Maybe some would rather this movie not be made than see any deviation from the book, but I think it's great to see another big screen incarnation that's hopefully better than what came before. I'll reserve my opinions till I watch it. If it's an excellent movie, it's an excellent one, regardless of whether Liet is black, female or trans.

If the director tries to pander to some target audience, he should at least shy away from making claims about this being truer to the book ;)

I liked his District 9 movie. But I seriously doubt he will do well in adapting a famous book, and the aforementioned signs are anything but good.

Uh, different directors, dude. You don't know what you're talking about, as usual.
 
Can't be bothered about whether the gender of Liet Kynes was changed. Kynes only existed as an infodump anyhow.
I'm not sure I'm a fan of how minimalist and almost antiseptic the visual design seems to be though.
 
gender-swapping Liet is probably the most insignificant of significant deviations from the book.

A woman being the leader of a patriarchal society doesn't seem insignificant, unless explained in some way - something I think can be accomplished, depending on what they actually end up doing with this.. I mean, the fact that Kynes is female could be used to highlight some other dynamic in the movie. Various aspects of gender do figure into the original story, so it would make sense focus on that in some capacity.. If you explain the backstory properly, that could make everything better. But if it's just sort of lazily thrown in there as an afterthought, it could make everything worse.

The thing is that the Dune universe is very well thought out (in the novel) and every single connection or detail matters. So changes to these details are possible, and sometimes necessarily when you are adapting something to a different medium, but in this case the clockwork as a whole has to continue to make sense as well
 
A woman being the leader of a patriarchal society doesn't seem insignificant, unless explained in some way - something I think can be accomplished, depending on what they actually end up doing with this.. I mean, the fact that Kynes is female could be used to highlight some other dynamic in the movie. Various aspects of gender do figure into the original story, so it would make sense focus on that in some capacity.. If you explain the backstory properly, that could make everything better. But if it's just sort of lazily thrown in there as an afterthought, it could make everything worse.

The thing is that the Dune universe is very well thought out (in the novel) and every single connection or detail matters. So changes to these details are possible, and sometimes necessarily when you are adapting something to a different medium, but in this case the clockwork as a whole has to continue to make sense as well
Is Fremen society all that patriarchal? I can't say I remember much one way or the other in the books.
 
Dune Part 1. When in doubt show breasts!

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/03/movies/venice-film-festival-dune-questions.html

Venice Film Festival: ‘Dune’ Leaves Us With 3 Big Questions

After watching the world premiere, our columnist has a better idea of the risks and expectations as the film heads to the box office and awards season.


merlin_194138049_92e4e294-6945-48a3-8f34-74b93782854b-articleLarge.jpg


Zendaya and Timothée Chalamet at the Venice Film Festival premiere of “Dune” on Friday.Credit...Joel C Ryan/Invision/AP
By Kyle Buchanan

Sept. 3, 2021Updated 1:08 p.m. ET
The spice must flow. But will audiences go?

Denis Villeneuve’s highly anticipated “Dune” premiered Friday at the Venice Film Festival, an unusual place to debut a sci-fi franchise-starter that cost upward of $160 million. Then again, “Dune” is not your typical tentpole.

It’s something dreamier and weirder, a movie that straddles the line between auteurist art-film and studio blockbuster so provocatively that even after watching it, I can’t quite predict how “Dune” will fare when it comes out in theaters (and on HBO Max) on Oct. 22. When I left my screening, the first critic I spoke to was totally besotted. The second fled the theater as if Villeneuve had planted a bomb there.

Still, after a decade of Marvel movies made with high-level craftsmanship but few formal risks, it’s bracing to get a movie of this scale that takes such big artistic swings. Here are three questions that kept swimming around in my head after watching it.

Can ‘Dune’ become a big-screen hit?
Though “Dune” is based on a classic sci-fi novel by Frank Herbert, adaptations of it have hardly set the world on fire. David Lynch’s 1984 adaptation was a famous disaster that the director disavowed, while two mini-series adaptations were more notable for stuffing wonky blue contact lenses into the eyes of a young James McAvoy than for inspiring any significant pop-cultural reaction.
But “Dune” has strong bones, and they’ve been picked over considerably since Herbert’s novel was published in 1965. So many films were inspired by “Dune” that the contours of the story might feel familiar now: A young man (Timothée Chalamet) is sent to an exotic planet that is being mined for a valuable natural resource — in this case, the hallucinogenic “spice” — but he eventually decides to throw in his lot with the Indigenous folk and fight back against their well-militarized oppressors. Yes, that’s basically the same plot as “Avatar” … and hey, maybe that’s a good thing! After all, “Avatar” was a record-setting blockbuster, and while Chalamet is new to leading this type of movie, Villeneuve has surrounded him with a cast of veterans: Jason Momoa, Dave Bautista and Josh Brolin have all done their time in the superhero salt mines, Oscar Isaac is fresh off a “Star Wars” trilogy, and Rebecca Ferguson has become the leading lady of the “Mission: Impossible” franchise. If so many other tentpole films have stolen from “Dune,” the least “Dune” could do is steal something back.

Still, even with that pedigree, “Dune” faces some significant obstacles. The film finished principal photography over two years ago and was originally set for release in November 2020 until Warner Bros. decided to delay the film for nearly a year. The expectation was that the push would place “Dune” in a post-Covid film landscape; the reality is that the continuing havoc wreaked by the Delta variant has movie studios spooked enough to shove some major movies (like “Top Gun: Maverick”) into 2022.

But “Dune” has strong bones, and they’ve been picked over considerably since Herbert’s novel was published in 1965. So many films were inspired by “Dune” that the contours of the story might feel familiar now: A young man (Timothée Chalamet) is sent to an exotic planet that is being mined for a valuable natural resource — in this case, the hallucinogenic “spice” — but he eventually decides to throw in his lot with the Indigenous folk and fight back against their well-militarized oppressors.

Yes, that’s basically the same plot as “Avatar” … and hey, maybe that’s a good thing! After all, “Avatar” was a record-setting blockbuster, and while Chalamet is new to leading this type of movie, Villeneuve has surrounded him with a cast of veterans: Jason Momoa, Dave Bautista and Josh Brolin have all done their time in the superhero salt mines, Oscar Isaac is fresh off a “Star Wars” trilogy, and Rebecca Ferguson has become the leading lady of the “Mission: Impossible” franchise. If so many other tentpole films have stolen from “Dune,” the least “Dune” could do is steal something back.

Still, even with that pedigree, “Dune” faces some significant obstacles. The film finished principal photography over two years ago and was originally set for release in November 2020 until Warner Bros. decided to delay the film for nearly a year. The expectation was that the push would place “Dune” in a post-Covid film landscape; the reality is that the continuing havoc wreaked by the Delta variant has movie studios spooked enough to shove some major movies (like “Top Gun: Maverick”) into 2022.

In some ways, this could be a good thing for “Dune”: With fewer brand-driven blockbusters in the marketplace, “Dune” could stand out and draw curious viewers who are eager for something big to watch. But to Villeneuve’s vocal consternation, the film will also premiere on HBO Max at the same time it bows in theaters, which could cut into box-office receipts and threaten the odds that a sequel will be greenlit.

It could affect the first round of buzz, too: The audience that will go see “Dune” in theaters is more inclined to be invested in it (and will experience its visual and sonic pleasures on the biggest possible scale), while the bored, curious and unfamiliar who click over on HBO Max may not be as partial to Villeneuve’s mise en scène. The first significant action sequence, a sandworm attack, doesn’t arrive until an hour into the movie. Are at-home audiences going to be as willing to see things through as the people who eagerly paid for their own tickets?

Though sci-fi movies can sometimes be a hard sell with Oscar voters, I suspect that Villeneuve’s distinctive eye will distinguish “Dune,” as the movie looks undeniably ravishing. A ton of below-the-line nominations are guaranteed, including Greig Fraser’s cinematography and the production design by Patrice Vermette. The score (by Hans Zimmer), sound and editing are all more daring than this genre usually allows: The aural soundscape and artsy crosscutting feel almost designed to draw you into a spice-induced trance.

And I haven’t even gotten to the fashion! The costume design (by Jacqueline West and Bob Morgan) is a stunner, and especially during the first hour of the film — with Rebecca Ferguson wearing outrageous space-nun sheaths and a veiled Charlotte Rampling dressed like the Green Knight in Gaultier — “Dune” can seem like a moody high-fashion shoot that occasionally includes spaceships. (I mean this as a good thing.)

Villeneuve’s last film, “Blade Runner 2049,” scored five Oscar nominations and won its cinematographer Roger Deakins a long-overdue Academy Award. Still, the movie couldn’t break into the two top Oscar categories, best picture and best director. Does “Dune” stand a better chance?

I’m taking the wait-and-see approach here. None of the actors from “Dune” are likely to be nominated, which would have helped legitimize a film like this with Oscar voters, and an adapted-screenplay nomination isn’t a foregone conclusion, either. Still, after 2020’s intimate field, I think the academy is eager to get a bigger movie into the best-picture race. Villeneuve’s fight to get his movie seen on the big screen may also resonate with streaming-skeptical voters who see his stubbornness as a crusade worth backing.


merlin_194119251_4d660fa6-0058-45e8-abfb-26de8b1724ec-articleLarge.jpg

The director Denis Villeneuve, center, in Venice surrounded by his “Dune” cast: from left, Javier Bardem, Zendaya, Rebecca Ferguson, Timothée Chalamet, Oscar Isaac and Josh Brolin.Credit...Yara Nardi/Reuters
Is ‘Dune: Part Two’ a sure thing?
Viewers who watch “Dune” expecting a complete experience may be thrown for a loop when the title card comes up: This isn’t “Dune,” it’s “Dune: Part One.”

Villeneuve has split Herbert’s book roughly in half, meaning that several of the significant character arcs are just getting started when this film comes to a close. And though Zendaya is plastered all over the marketing as the female lead, it’s really Ferguson who gets that spotlight: Outside of a few dreamy visions of what’s to come, Zendaya’s character doesn’t factor into the story in a big way just yet.

Villeneuve intends to make “Dune” a two-parter and is working on the screenplay for the sequel, but Warner Bros. still hasn’t technically greenlit it. The studio has tried the two-film gambit before, splitting the Stephen King adaptation “It” into halves, but those films opened two years apart and a prospective “Dune” sequel would likely take far longer to mount. (It may also concern the studio that “It Chapter Two” made some $225 million less worldwide than the first film, despite an influx of big stars.)

Perhaps Warner Bros. is taking a wait-and-see approach, too, and watching the “Dune” box office before pulling the trigger on a second film, but the benchmarks of success look very different during a pandemic and a simultaneous streaming run. With a planned HBO Max spinoff series focused on the Bene Gesserit (a secretive, all-female group that counts Ferguson’s and Rampling’s characters among its acolytes), I’m surprised that the studio won’t firmly commit to a sequel now, if only to engineer some momentum ahead of the film’s release.

It would also cue audiences to expect an unfinished story at the end of “Dune,” which rockets through a couple of higher-octane climaxes before landing on a somewhat muted denouement. Villeneuve does plenty of teasing: Many major events to come are glimpsed, as if the movie can’t wait to get to the good stuff. But how long a wait will that prove to be?
 
Back
Top Bottom