pre-release info New First Look: Charlemagne

[The Fanatical]

Btw we already have confirmations about the number of civs on release (30 + shawnee), but do we know how many leaders will be there on release (including Tecumseh)?

22 + 6 personas (my own assumption).

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Our first look at a Norman Sokeman UCU

An Aircraft Carrier, WW2 type. Straight deck

 

[Guandao]

Looks less like Burger King, but they haven't ditched the beard. I have not much to say about him.

 

[Lord Lakely]

it feels like there’s an imbalance away from ancient leaders atm so i’d hope so

There's a massive imbalance of western/european leaders though.

There are TWO EURO CIVS PER ERA. And so far we know about Augustus, Isabella, Machiavelli, Charlemagne, both Napoleons, Franklin and if the rating spoiler is true, Frederick II and Catherine the Great. (This is the mean reason why Charlemagne was such a surprise to me - the Euro market is already oversaturated)

That's a lot of Leaders competing for essential two puny slots (three in Modern)

 

[The Fanatical]

would also take ashurbanipal or a homeric semi-mythical figure

Please, no mythical or semi-mythical leaders like Dido or Aeneas. There are plenty of interesting historical figures.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

It seems the idea is to placate the folks who'd be upset about a lower ratio of European civs with a much higher ratio of European leaders? Don't get me wrong, Charlemagne is cool, but if the ESRB info is correct, we'll have what, seven leaders competing for two civs per Age? If that comes at the expense of a Mesoamerican or Hawaiian leader I think that'll feel a bit weird...

 

[Xandinho]

There's a massive imbalance of western/european leaders though.

There are TWO EURO CIVS PER ERA. And so far we know about Augustus, Isabella, Machiavelli, Charlemagne, both Napoleons, Franklin and if the rating spoiler is true, Frederick II and Catherine the Great. (This is the mean reason why Charlemagne was such a surprise to me - the Euro market is already oversaturated)

That's a lot of Civs competing for essential two puny slots (three in Modern)

Now that you mention it, there are indeed many more Western leaders compared to other places, even though in civs it is more balanced.
If we don't have a modern African leader, the whole of Africa will only have two leaders.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Yeah, I think Charlemagne's presence inadvertently confirms a male African leader from the modern era (and Shaka is the prime candidate for that), and that the pool of original leaders might be larger than we first thought. I also believe we're due for one more mesoamerican leader to pair with Maya and/or Mexico (Benito Juárez?)

Also, the amount of Asian leaders makes sense to be higher than what it currently is because of the sensitivies. (A Japanese leader shouldn't lead China or Korea by default, etc)

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

22 + 6 personas (my own assumption).

do we actually have that many personas in the base game? I don't want to include Ashoka's and Xerxes' personas because they are included in post launch DLCs I believe

 

[Venceslau Pietro Pietra]

Great leader choice and very good model, perfect for a Santa Claus themed persona.
It's clear now that the Normans intended to be a wildcard for western europe in general, wich i dont know if its a good choice or not since a lot of leaders seems to be linked to them in exploration era.

 

[Zaarin]

it feels like there’s an imbalance away from ancient leaders atm so i’d hope so

There always is.

would also take ashurbanipal

Ashurbanipal is fine, but Assyria has no shortage of interesting personalities. Esarhaddon is my personal preference. He could be a callback to Civ5's moody, surly, paranoid Nebuchadnezzar II.

Please, no mythical or semi-mythical leaders like Dido or Aeneas. There are plenty of interesting historical figures.

Dido doesn't really belong in the same category with Aeneas; most historians agree she was real. Her brother certainly was; we have some of his inscriptions. I think Dido works well because she ties together the Phoenician East and the Phoenician West, and most of the obvious alternatives are warmongers (sorry, Hannibal) or obscure (any Tyrian or Sidonian or Byblian king, for example) or debatably Phoenician (Azatiwadda, for instance)--and none can simultaneously represent both East and West like she does. Dido also embodies the Northwest Semitic admiration for cleverness (see also the Biblical Jacob or the Ugaritic Danel). So I wouldn't object to seeing Hanno the Navigator or Hamilcar Barca or Tabnit of Sidon or even Hannibal Barca again, but I think there are a lot of compelling arguments for why Dido is a rock-solid choice for Phoenicia.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

do we actually have that many personas in the base game? I don't want to include Ashoka's and Xerxes' personas because they are included in post launch DLCs I believe

Ashoka and Xerxes are from the deluxe editions of the base game, or whatever they're called, so they're available on launch.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I also believe we're due for one more mesoamerican leader to pair with Maya and/or Mexico (Benito Juárez?)

It would be nice if we could get one, at least. Mesoamerica doesn't extend to South America. Pachacuti is Andean.

do we actually have that many personas in the base game? I don't want to include Ashoka's and Xerxes' personas because they are included in post launch DLCs I believe

My guess is that the other two leaders that will have personas will be Frederick the Great and Benjamin Franklin. And all of them will be on launch as long as you have the Deluxe Edition.

 

[Atlas627]

So I am assuming Charlemagne is here to help us bridge to Germany in Modern, because otherwise it seemed a bit difficult to get to Germany.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The graphic may be a 'popular' version, but it doesn't look like what we know of Charlemagne. Not only do we have a contemporary description of him (from his later years) but his tomb was opened in the 19th century and the remains examined forensically, so we have actual 'hard' data on him:

He was 6 feet 4 inches tall - he should tower over most of the other Leaders.

He is only described as bearded 400 years after his death. Contemporary descriptions have him wearing his hair short, with a mustasche but otherwise clean-shaven.

The size of his bones indicates that his overall build was slim but the contemporary description calls him 'heavily built' - which suggests well-developed musculature for his skeletal frame.

But, hey, who cares as long as the Leader attributes play well. I suspect he is going to be among my first few Leaders tried, regardless of how he looks.

 

[Daniel Boone]

Charlemagne was one of my favorites from civ4, I’m glad he’s back.

 

[Uberfrog]

Franks could even be acceptable in the Ancient era by the thematic classifications that @Andrew Johnson [FXS] has talked about before. He’s also contemporaneous with the Khmer and their direct predecessors, who fall into Ancient as well.

Acceptable perhaps, but an error, I think. I would prefer Gaul as the Antiquity era representation of France, and I feel Franks and the crusades fit the games Exploration era quite well.

We will also probably see the Goths as an Antiquity civ and that and the possible Norse probably enough Germanic representation in that era…

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

And all of them will be on launch as long as you have the Deluxe Edition.

I just checked, the Ashoka persona is included in the Founder Edition, Xerxes persona is in the Deluxe. We have 1 more persona from Founder and 1 more from Deluxe that haven't been revealed, plus Napoleon persona, so at least 5 personas will be available at launch.

 

[The Fanatical]

do we actually have that many personas in the base game? I don't want to include Ashoka's and Xerxes' personas because they are included in post launch DLCs I believe

We have three personas currently. Ashoka's, Xerxes's and Napoleon's. I assume another three will be revealed until the game's launch.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Interestingly, it seems that the crown Charlemagne is wearing here is a simplified version of the Imperial Crown of the Holy Roman Empire (which has eight flat plates), rather than the Crown of Charlemagne (which has four curved plates).

Charlemagne himself never wore the Imperial Crown, as it was likely created for Otto I's coronation.

Charlemagne also never wore the Crown of Charlemagne! It's named after his legacy, not as a gift to him. And so yes we were left without a lot of reference for a crown!