pre-release info New First Look: Trưng Trắc

[notNamed]

They didn't hold back Chinese aggression, they aggressively took their land back from China.

It was more like "The governor's taxes are high and he sucks at his job. Let me in charge and I'll lower the taxes for everyone." And people went for the tax cut.
If it was about "taking back their land" there would be further rebellions going forward. What happened instead was that the general who came and cut these girls down sent a note about taxes being high, proceeded to lower them and that was it, no more banditry, no more local kingdoms. This guy (the inspiration behind her "hates good generals" agenda) is also enshrined and prayed to as a diety in Vietnam just like the sisters to this day.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

There is probably no Viet

At least until expansion pack.
there better be. actually. Two rivals meet as equal enemies. and Two countries NEVER EVER Has been united despite the efforts by each of respective leaders to annex each other by the first half of 19th Century.
i'd rather see Either a Regent from Bunnag Family or P. Phibunsongkram being PC. as well.

 

[Navelgazer]

I think I like the agenda - if you're playing peacefully (as I usually do, but who knows how that'll work out in Civ7) she'll probably be a nice neighbor to have. She wants to pick fights, but she specifically wants to pick fights with bullies. That's a fun personality to have in the game.

That said, I don't think her bonuses give any reason for a human player to play her that way. But no matter, her bonuses still fit well with any number of civs we've seen so far.

 

[8housesofelixir]

It was more like "The governor's taxes are high and he sucks at his job. Let me in charge and I'll lower the taxes for everyone." And people went for the tax cut.

About 90% of the "ethnic minority rebellion" happened in the Imperial China could be boiled down to this (which said a lot about the imperial rule).

 

[Krikkit1]

I think I like the agenda - if you're playing peacefully (as I usually do, but who knows how that'll work out in Civ7) she'll probably be a nice neighbor to have. She wants to pick fights, but she specifically wants to pick fights with bullies. That's a fun personality to have in the game.

That said, I don't think her bonuses give any reason for a human player to play her that way. But no matter, her bonuses still fit well with any number of civs we've seen so far.

Interesting point on the diplomacy…it seems like it will affect the human player as well.

If I play as them, then my relationship with the most highly promoted civ will be worse and my relationship with the least highly promoted civ will be better.

Relationship is one number and affected by the Agendas on both ends (as well as all the diplomatic work both sides put into it…either raising or lowering it from the baseline)

 

[Zaarin]

Relationship is one number and affected by the Agendas on both ends (as well as all the diplomatic work both sides put into it…either raising or lowering it from the baseline)

Source? I've never seen any indication that Agendas are two-way, now.

 

[Evolena]

I dont understand her abilities?

Why science from jungle? Is it just to synergie with jungle civ and jungle yield is science?

Technically, it's not a bonus from Jungles, but from Tropical terrain. Tropical is the biome, Jungle is the name of the Vegetated feature in this biome.

 

[Krikkit1]

Source? I've never seen any indication that Agendas are two-way, now.

They modified Relationships so that they are a thing
1. you measurably increase or decrease
2. change the costs benefits and availability of different diplomatic actions
3. They are affected by Agendas (not AI behavior, Relationships as an actual mechanic)

If the Relationships are 2-way (not I like/hate him, but we have a good/bad relationship) then the Agendas that affect relationship are two way as well.

So as Confucius you need to spend a little extra influence to be able to trade with the Super Specialist civ, As Tecumseh it will a cost less influence to get along with the other mega suzerein, and more influence.

The AI behavior would be separate, Augustus may be your worst enemy, even though you have no Towns, but if he doesn't attack you it will cost less influence to repair the relationship... it will cost more influence for him to make it hard to attack.

 

[Zaarin]

They modified Relationships so that they are a thing
1. you measurably increase or decrease
2. change the costs benefits and availability of different diplomatic actions
3. They are affected by Agendas (not AI behavior, Relationships as an actual mechanic)

If the Relationships are 2-way (not I like/hate him, but we have a good/bad relationship) then the Agendas that affect relationship are two way as well.

So as Confucius you need to spend a little extra influence to be able to trade with the Super Specialist civ, As Tecumseh it will a cost less influence to get along with the other mega suzerein, and more influence.

The AI behavior would be separate, Augustus may be your worst enemy, even though you have no Towns, but if he doesn't attack you it will cost less influence to repair the relationship... it will cost more influence for him to make it hard to attack.

That's...not my interpretation of what we've seen at all, and I find it pretty unlikely that the game would force you to use your leader's agenda. I haven't seen any indication that Agendas affect non-AI players or function any differently from Civ6 except in being quantifiable and having conditions.

 

[Krikkit1]

That's...not my interpretation of what we've seen at all, and I find it pretty unlikely that the game would force you to use your leader's agenda. I haven't seen any indication that Agendas affect non-AI players or function any differently from Civ6 except in being quantifiable and having conditions.

Well the two factors of
Leader Agendas affect "Relationship"
and the big one
"Relationship" is an actual game mechanic... you spend currency/perform actions to change it and it changes the costs/availability of performing diplomatic actions (war/trade etc.)

A bad relationship doesn't mean the AI will declare war on you. It just means that if Either you or the AI declare War it will be easy for the person declaring the war.

If the AI "likes you" that does not mean you have a good relationship, instead it means the AI will be spending Influence on improving your Relationship. (so it will probably be good)

Just because you have a good Relationship with the AI doesn't mean they won't attack you... it just means that you will get some bonuses if they do.

 

[Zaarin]

Well the two factors of
Leader Agendas affect "Relationship"
and the big one
"Relationship" is an actual game mechanic... you spend currency/perform actions to change it and it changes the costs/availability of performing diplomatic actions (war/trade etc.)

A bad relationship doesn't mean the AI will declare war on you. It just means that if Either you or the AI declare War it will be easy for the person declaring the war.

If the AI "likes you" that does not mean you have a good relationship, instead it means the AI will be spending Influence on improving your Relationship. (so it will probably be good)

Just because you have a good Relationship with the AI doesn't mean they won't attack you... it just means that you will get some bonuses if they do.

Yes, but none of that follows to the player's leader's agenda affecting relationship.

 

[Krikkit1]

Yes, but none of that follows to the player's leader's agenda affecting relationship.

Why should the players leader work differently than the AIs, none of the other Leader Abilities work that way, why should the Agenda Ability?

The Bonus, Start Bias and Attributes all have the same effect whether the Leader is played by Human or AI...why not the Agenda?

 

[Zaarin]

Why should the players leader work differently than the AIs, none of the other Leader Abilities work that way, why should the Agenda Ability?

Because that's the way it's always been? Because telling the human player what to think of other players is absurd?

 

[chaosprophet]

Why should the players leader work differently than the AIs, none of the other Leader Abilities work that way, why should the Agenda Ability?

The Bonus, Start Bias and Attributes all have the same effect whether the Leader is played by Human or AI...why not the Agenda?

Because the agenda is supposed to give he AI a personality, that this is what they want to achieve so they may dislike others who go against it. While the player agenda is whatever the player wants to do, no need to make the Agenda work for them too.

 

[Krikkit1]

Because the agenda is supposed to give he AI a personality, that this is what they want to achieve so they may dislike others who go against it. While the player agenda is whatever the player wants to do, no need to make the Agenda work for them too.

Then they could say like/dislike instead of having a game mechanics effect. Because AI behavior and game mechanics bonuses are different things.

 

[Zaarin]

Then they could say like/dislike instead of having a game mechanics effect. Because AI behavior and game mechanics bonuses are different things.

The AI leader's agenda affects their relationship with you and other AI players. That's exactly how it worked in Civ6.

 

[Leyrann]

EDIT: I didn't realize there was a page three, this comment was in response to the discussion at the end of page 2.

In Civ VI, a Formal War is simply a war declared when relations have already deteriorated. You already disliked each other and now you're taking the next step.

It could be different in CIv VII though. I would expect wars declared with a Casus Belli to classify (note: technically a Formal War in Civ VI is also a Casus Belli) based on the overall context of their and Vietnam's history and their theming, so perhaps "Formal War" now means a war declared with a proper reason (Casus Belli).

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Firaxis: releases obscure new leader
Me:

Spoiler "I don't even know who you are" :

 

[Glassmage]

this agenda system need to go, such a trash implementation...

 

[Acepox]

Introducing Trưng Trắc! For a brief period in what is now Vietnam, two sisters, Trưng Trắc and Trưng Nhị, stood against the might of the Han Dynasty. When her husband was sentenced to death, Trưng Trắc and her sister fought on, gaining independence for three years before the Han counterattack. They are still held up as symbols of Vietnamese independence, and divinities in their own right.

Agenda:
Van Minh: Decrease Relationship by Medium Amount with the player who has the greatest amount of Promotions across all Commanders. If tied, Decrease Relationship a Small Amount with tie holders. Increase Relationship by Medium Amount with the player who has the least amount of Promotions across all Commanders. If tied, Increase Relationship a Small Amount with tie holders.

Starting Biases:
Vegetated
Tropical

Attributes:
Militaristic
Scientific

Unique Ability:
Hai Bà Trung: Gain a set number of free Promotions on your first Commander. Your Commanders gain additional experience. Gain increased Science in Cities on Tropical tiles; this bonus is increased during any Formal War you declare.

Just noticed something that really irked me

At the very end, it says "Remember to build something YOU believe in"

What the hell does that say about players who go for domination victory? Extremely odd framing here.

It seems representative of the cancer of self-insertion currently plaguing the gaming industry.