New Game- random leader:Roosevelt
- Thread starter joe6778
- Start date
Robert FIN
Emperor
What? Me? Well, I think that you have enough cities to own KK easily, since its Noble. Just finish Construction, get Catapults online and build some Elephants or Axes or whatever you got and WHIP!! Whip hard!
!! ..and get Kublai's lands. That's my opinion.
CivNoobie
King
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2012
- Messages
- 614
small map, whip out swordsmen/war phants/HAs
UnforcedError
Settler
Alright, I'll sub for him then.
Well Joe, before you even consider playing on please make these trades:
Tip: as soon as you get Alpha you must monitor the trade screen (preferably every turn) to see if you can get something. As soon as you get Currency you must try to sell old techs to the AI. Up your research to 100% after you make the trades. That's one of the purposes of getting Currency early.
EDIT: You can't get 100% for too long. Whip the library in Bulawayo and get some scientists going next turn. Don't let your cities grow into unhappiness. Angry citizens are bad. They cost food and maintenance, too.
Tip2: Writing to Ragnar for 15 gold might seem cheap but you will notice he has 30 gold available to trade. As he's only offering 15 gold he's definitely very close to reasearching it anyway.
Tip3: as soon as you've traded check if you get TRs with some more AIs (by getting Sailing). You should trade for happy resources if possible.
Stop building axes for the moment, chances are we have iron. Or if not we can settle it soon enough. Cats and swords / axes will be the way to go against Kublai. Whip / build / chop some settlers and workers instead, let's get the remaining awesome sites to the E and N. (Land is power, as long as you settle useful cities and make sure they work improved tiles.)
You could either make the trades and upload immediately so that we can discuss some micro. I can see plenty of micro errors right away but you could try to correct them (Lymond gave you tons of great tips for that) and upload afterwards. Or if you want to play on please make sure you stop as soon as Construction is in (don't forget to set research to 100% after the trades and get that second library going).
EDIT2: the Academy should probably go to uMgungundlovu. We've seen better commerce sites but that's the best you got for the moment.
EDIT3: we should settle the corn-fish site to the E first and get that impi back home to join our future stack which should assemble 1NE of Kublai's copper. The worker on the rice should move now to road that tile. In fact you can move the impi back right away, as the E warrior can sub for him in that region. Do NOT build any more axes. The current ones in build can stay in the queue. You can build 1-2 chariots and swords if you want, apart from the settlers. Move those spawn busting axes back home, they should join the stack too. The one between Hamburg and Bulawayo is simply unnecessary. Move the N warrior to spawn bust the gold region. We don't want to make settling easier for Bismarck.
Also: you want the workers ready to chop when Construction's in, at least in the cities close to Kublai.
Well Joe, before you even consider playing on please make these trades:
Spoiler :
Tip: as soon as you get Alpha you must monitor the trade screen (preferably every turn) to see if you can get something. As soon as you get Currency you must try to sell old techs to the AI. Up your research to 100% after you make the trades. That's one of the purposes of getting Currency early.
EDIT: You can't get 100% for too long. Whip the library in Bulawayo and get some scientists going next turn. Don't let your cities grow into unhappiness. Angry citizens are bad. They cost food and maintenance, too.
Tip2: Writing to Ragnar for 15 gold might seem cheap but you will notice he has 30 gold available to trade. As he's only offering 15 gold he's definitely very close to reasearching it anyway.
Tip3: as soon as you've traded check if you get TRs with some more AIs (by getting Sailing). You should trade for happy resources if possible.
Stop building axes for the moment, chances are we have iron. Or if not we can settle it soon enough. Cats and swords / axes will be the way to go against Kublai. Whip / build / chop some settlers and workers instead, let's get the remaining awesome sites to the E and N. (Land is power, as long as you settle useful cities and make sure they work improved tiles.)
You could either make the trades and upload immediately so that we can discuss some micro. I can see plenty of micro errors right away but you could try to correct them (Lymond gave you tons of great tips for that) and upload afterwards. Or if you want to play on please make sure you stop as soon as Construction is in (don't forget to set research to 100% after the trades and get that second library going).
EDIT2: the Academy should probably go to uMgungundlovu. We've seen better commerce sites but that's the best you got for the moment.
EDIT3: we should settle the corn-fish site to the E first and get that impi back home to join our future stack which should assemble 1NE of Kublai's copper. The worker on the rice should move now to road that tile. In fact you can move the impi back right away, as the E warrior can sub for him in that region. Do NOT build any more axes. The current ones in build can stay in the queue. You can build 1-2 chariots and swords if you want, apart from the settlers. Move those spawn busting axes back home, they should join the stack too. The one between Hamburg and Bulawayo is simply unnecessary. Move the N warrior to spawn bust the gold region. We don't want to make settling easier for Bismarck.
Also: you want the workers ready to chop when Construction's in, at least in the cities close to Kublai.
No, not all games go that long. As you improve, you will find yourself winning much earlier...
Take space as an example. In GOTM competitions, 1800 is considered a "normal" competitive date for a space win, and the medals usually go to wins in the mid 17's or earlier... Even pre-1700 happens.
Culture victories come a couple of centuries before that, anddiplo can come in yet another couple of centuries earlier.
As for millitary wins, they are easily acheivable before 1000 AD, and in fact in some cases in the BC's, depending on the map (in particular if you need astronomy to reach enough land or all the AI.)
That's amazing.
I'm finishing up a games as the Zulus. Terra map. Two rivals left. Way ahead on points and #1 in almost every category. Even though I'll win a domination victory, it's not going to happen until late 1900s.
I thought I would try for a win other than space race, but it's been a slugfest even though I now have around 40 cities.
I'm finishing up a games as the Zulus. Terra map. Two rivals left. Way ahead on points and #1 in almost every category. Even though I'll win a domination victory, it's not going to happen until late 1900s.
I thought I would try for a win other than space race, but it's been a slugfest even though I now have around 40 cities.
@Joe: I won't presume to offer advice, but I'll make a couple of observations. For me, the victory date seems to depend on game speed. I've won as early as 13th century on Marathon, but don't do nearly as well at Normal speed. I abandon a lot of games with victory in sight because my goal is to try to win by 1900 or so, and I get bored filling in the blanks if the conclusion is obvious and it's going to take too long.
A piece of advice from Patchface earlier in this thread has been a great learning tool for me. Try playing small Pangaea maps at the lowest level you have never beaten. After my first disastrous and humiliating attempt at Monarch, I've learned a great deal about my play from trying this. I haven't won yet, but each attempt gets a little closer. Not only that, applying the lessons learned has improved my performance on Noble and Prince.
The most important thing I've learned about myself is to take time after each turn set to analyze each city and plan ahead. Far too often, I let myself get caught up, and before I realize, I've gotten myself in trouble.
A piece of advice from Patchface earlier in this thread has been a great learning tool for me. Try playing small Pangaea maps at the lowest level you have never beaten. After my first disastrous and humiliating attempt at Monarch, I've learned a great deal about my play from trying this. I haven't won yet, but each attempt gets a little closer. Not only that, applying the lessons learned has improved my performance on Noble and Prince.
The most important thing I've learned about myself is to take time after each turn set to analyze each city and plan ahead. Far too often, I let myself get caught up, and before I realize, I've gotten myself in trouble.
I like to play at normal speed on terra maps. I know it's more difficult to win domination or conquest victories on terra because of the land areas that can't be reached before astronomy. I also use all the default settings.
If (when) I start winning earlier, I'll move up in difficulty.
If (when) I start winning earlier, I'll move up in difficulty.
Alright, I'll sub for him then.
Well Joe, before you even consider playing on please make these trades:
Spoiler :
Tip: as soon as you get Alpha you must monitor the trade screen (preferably every turn) to see if you can get something. As soon as you get Currency you must try to sell old techs to the AI. Up your research to 100% after you make the trades. That's one of the purposes of getting Currency early.
EDIT: You can't get 100% for too long. Whip the library in Bulawayo and get some scientists going next turn. Don't let your cities grow into unhappiness. Angry citizens are bad. They cost food and maintenance, too.
Tip2: Writing to Ragnar for 15 gold might seem cheap but you will notice he has 30 gold available to trade. As he's only offering 15 gold he's definitely very close to reasearching it anyway.
Tip3: as soon as you've traded check if you get TRs with some more AIs (by getting Sailing). You should trade for happy resources if possible.
Stop building axes for the moment, chances are we have iron. Or if not we can settle it soon enough. Cats and swords / axes will be the way to go against Kublai. Whip / build / chop some settlers and workers instead, let's get the remaining awesome sites to the E and N. (Land is power, as long as you settle useful cities and make sure they work improved tiles.)
You could either make the trades and upload immediately so that we can discuss some micro. I can see plenty of micro errors right away but you could try to correct them (Lymond gave you tons of great tips for that) and upload afterwards. Or if you want to play on please make sure you stop as soon as Construction is in (don't forget to set research to 100% after the trades and get that second library going).
EDIT2: the Academy should probably go to uMgungundlovu. We've seen better commerce sites but that's the best you got for the moment.
EDIT3: we should settle the corn-fish site to the E first and get that impi back home to join our future stack which should assemble 1NE of Kublai's copper. The worker on the rice should move now to road that tile. In fact you can move the impi back right away, as the E warrior can sub for him in that region. Do NOT build any more axes. The current ones in build can stay in the queue. You can build 1-2 chariots and swords if you want, apart from the settlers. Move those spawn busting axes back home, they should join the stack too. The one between Hamburg and Bulawayo is simply unnecessary. Move the N warrior to spawn bust the gold region. We don't want to make settling easier for Bismarck.
Also: you want the workers ready to chop when Construction's in, at least in the cities close to Kublai.
Made the trades. What is TRs (Tip 3)?
Packers5280
Deity
I believe she means trade routes.
The win dates examples I was giving above are from normal speed. Marathon can indeed come much easrlier than even those... The dates are NOT very dependent on difficulty level... For example, space in 1800 is a decent competitive date on any level from Nobel (maybe even lower, but nobel is the lowest level in GOTM) all the way up to Deity.
On terra maps, those dates are all realistic in general for all the peaceful wins, as well as for conquest. Domination sometimes comes that early as well, if the old world has enough tiles to reach the land limit. If not, then it would come in a century or so later.
TR=trade routes... The reference to sailing is that to get trade routes (for resource trading purposes) between two civs, you need their CAPITALS to be conncted. Connected can be:
a)-Connected by a road
b)-OR: Connected by river or coast .
For b), the connection before sailing only works if EVERY tile of the connection is inside your or the AI's culture. After sailing, culture is no longer relevant, the connection works.
On terra maps, those dates are all realistic in general for all the peaceful wins, as well as for conquest. Domination sometimes comes that early as well, if the old world has enough tiles to reach the land limit. If not, then it would come in a century or so later.
TR=trade routes... The reference to sailing is that to get trade routes (for resource trading purposes) between two civs, you need their CAPITALS to be conncted. Connected can be:
a)-Connected by a road
b)-OR: Connected by river or coast .
For b), the connection before sailing only works if EVERY tile of the connection is inside your or the AI's culture. After sailing, culture is no longer relevant, the connection works.
UnforcedError
Settler
Joe, you should have done this trade:
Gilgamesh:
Alpha for Sailing + 20 gold AND Iron Working. You don't want to give away monopoly techs cheap, besides we want iron fast because we want to go to war. OTOH we don't need Archery. At all. The key to war success is metal / horse / siege not archers.
Tip: go to Gilgamesh's trade screen and select IW from his side and Alpha from yours. Click "What would make this deal work?". You will see that he offers Sailing and 20 gold in addition to IW. This is a very strong trade, even for Noble. Let's reload and make all the trades again.
We can trade for ivory with Bismarck after we get Sailing which is great. We won't need elephants against Kublai (~five-six catapults plus the axes you built should do the job), but ivory is also a happy resource.
Let's give him rice + pig for ivory (the worker finishes the road on the second pig this turn). Alternatively we can give him rice + stone, we won't need the stone for a while and he might just build something nice for us.
My suggestion for city / unit micro for the next 4 turns (when Construction will be in):
After you traded for IW you should see if we have iron or not. If yes, start moving at least one worker but preferably two towards it this turn, let's improve and road the tile. If no we should settle the spot asap.
Ulundi should chop a settler right now (to be followed up with a catapult). uMgungundlovu can stagnate on a settler until we can whip a catapult here. Nobamba should assign two scientists (in exchange for the grass farm and the grass mine) and start a chariot. We will pop out these units immediately before we want to start the war. This city will also whip a catapult after Construction is in.
Bulawayo should whip the library and start working 2 scientists next turn. This city will also whip a catapult. kwaDukuza should now replace the build with workboat and whip next turn.
Nongoma: should whip the workboat as soon as it grows.
Units: as I hinted before we want the stack to assemble 1NE of Kublai's copper. We will pillage his copper in the first turn of the war and then attack Beshbalik. Karakorum is too far away to go against directly, that city will be next. His third city doesn't have any improvements yet, and doesn't pose a threat yet.
To make our war effective we want to road the tile we assemble on. We also want a direct road connection to this tile from Nobamba so let's road the tile 1W of the stone as well.
Move the warrior N of Bismarck between the wheat and gold. Recall the axe near Hamburg. Move warrior sitting next to Bulawayo inside the city and move out the two axes to join the stack. Move E warrior towards the spot the impi's standing on, let the impi return and join the stack. He'll be good for pillaging and against HAs if Kublai was to settle the horse during the war.
The workers should concentrate on chopping, making the roads I mentioned and improving the iron. GS should move to uMgungundlovu and complete the Academy.
Move the scouting warrior next to Munich 1S towards Kublai's third city. We want to scout out his units before we begin the war.
Don't forget to set research to 100% after you made the trades. You can play until Construction's in or we can also do it turn by turn if you want. War preparation requires a bit of precision.
Gilgamesh:
Alpha for Sailing + 20 gold AND Iron Working. You don't want to give away monopoly techs cheap, besides we want iron fast because we want to go to war. OTOH we don't need Archery. At all. The key to war success is metal / horse / siege not archers.
Tip: go to Gilgamesh's trade screen and select IW from his side and Alpha from yours. Click "What would make this deal work?". You will see that he offers Sailing and 20 gold in addition to IW. This is a very strong trade, even for Noble. Let's reload and make all the trades again.
We can trade for ivory with Bismarck after we get Sailing which is great. We won't need elephants against Kublai (~five-six catapults plus the axes you built should do the job), but ivory is also a happy resource.
Let's give him rice + pig for ivory (the worker finishes the road on the second pig this turn). Alternatively we can give him rice + stone, we won't need the stone for a while and he might just build something nice for us.
My suggestion for city / unit micro for the next 4 turns (when Construction will be in):
After you traded for IW you should see if we have iron or not. If yes, start moving at least one worker but preferably two towards it this turn, let's improve and road the tile. If no we should settle the spot asap.
Ulundi should chop a settler right now (to be followed up with a catapult). uMgungundlovu can stagnate on a settler until we can whip a catapult here. Nobamba should assign two scientists (in exchange for the grass farm and the grass mine) and start a chariot. We will pop out these units immediately before we want to start the war. This city will also whip a catapult after Construction is in.
Bulawayo should whip the library and start working 2 scientists next turn. This city will also whip a catapult. kwaDukuza should now replace the build with workboat and whip next turn.
Nongoma: should whip the workboat as soon as it grows.
Units: as I hinted before we want the stack to assemble 1NE of Kublai's copper. We will pillage his copper in the first turn of the war and then attack Beshbalik. Karakorum is too far away to go against directly, that city will be next. His third city doesn't have any improvements yet, and doesn't pose a threat yet.
To make our war effective we want to road the tile we assemble on. We also want a direct road connection to this tile from Nobamba so let's road the tile 1W of the stone as well.
Move the warrior N of Bismarck between the wheat and gold. Recall the axe near Hamburg. Move warrior sitting next to Bulawayo inside the city and move out the two axes to join the stack. Move E warrior towards the spot the impi's standing on, let the impi return and join the stack. He'll be good for pillaging and against HAs if Kublai was to settle the horse during the war.
The workers should concentrate on chopping, making the roads I mentioned and improving the iron. GS should move to uMgungundlovu and complete the Academy.
Move the scouting warrior next to Munich 1S towards Kublai's third city. We want to scout out his units before we begin the war.
Don't forget to set research to 100% after you made the trades. You can play until Construction's in or we can also do it turn by turn if you want. War preparation requires a bit of precision.
Hah! Space race victory in the 1800s?! Not only does it sound unrealistic, but for me, impossible to achieve.
UnforcedError
Settler
Space victory in the 1800s is actually pretty late even for Noble (which is the slowest level for teching purposes).
Thanks. I'll continue my game tonight after work and implement these suggestions.
UnforcedError
Settler
You're welcome 
Take your time, it's best to play slowly and rather check your cities twice every turn instead of not at all.
Take your time, it's best to play slowly and rather check your cities twice every turn instead of not at all.I would LOVE to see this done. Are there any videos of games ending in a Space Race victory this early? I just can't fathom this.
UnforcedError
Settler
Hm, space games don't seem to be that popular in videos. There's a space game in Lymond's signature you might want to watch (although it's on IMM and ends sometime around 1900). I remember TMIT's Earth Challenge in which he went space with Shaka. (And you might also compare that to AZ's impi rush which is not a space victory but it's a very different interpretation of the same game mischief. If you want to see 'record strategies' it might be a good idea to have a look at some Hall of Fame games. Just select a game to see the details. Sometimes it would even include a write-up, but you will always be able to see the game logs which will tell you what happened in the game and you can download the saves as well. Note however, that you're allowed to reroll starts and select opponents and some game options for HOF games, so they aren't typical 'random games',
mischief. If you want to see 'record strategies' it might be a good idea to have a look at some Hall of Fame games. Just select a game to see the details. Sometimes it would even include a write-up, but you will always be able to see the game logs which will tell you what happened in the game and you can download the saves as well. Note however, that you're allowed to reroll starts and select opponents and some game options for HOF games, so they aren't typical 'random games',
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