New Grigori Adventurer Spawning Mechanic

[[to_xp]Gekko]

awesome idea, I hate the randomness of the awakened spawning. this will be the first major step towards Grigori+ I guess

 

[lordrune]

Looks like a good concept.
Any chance of making Scions Awakened spawning go the same way?

 

[Valkrionn]

None whatsoever.

I like the randomness of the awakened.... And the Scions hold a rather special place. First thing that got me on the forums was playtesting them.

Should be easy enough for someone to make a module out of it when I move it to the DLL, but I doubt I'd EVER do it in the main mod.

Edit: Also, one of the main reasons I didn't like the random spawning for the Adventurers, was it had already been done for the Scions. I want them to function differently, not the same.

 

[Ahwaric]

Should be easy enough for someone to make a module out of it when I move it to the DLL, but I doubt I'd EVER do it in the main mod.

Edit: Also, one of the main reasons I didn't like the random spawning for the Adventurers, was it had already been done for the Scions. I want them to function differently, not the same.

You are right. But I still do not feel comfortable with current awakened mechanics. It causes issues, especially if more than one scions player is in game. Not that common, but still. Of course, the same applies to current adventurer spawning method.

I still want the mechanism moved to dll ASAP, but will wait till you are comfortable with it. If I can have someone do the work, who am I to interrupt
JK, as I said, will try to help.

For now, is there any chance to get my hands on the files? I feel weird adding new functions from forum posts
Just please make sure to mark things tomake them easy to look for

 

[Valkrionn]

You are right. But I still do not feel comfortable with current awakened mechanics. It causes issues, especially if more than one scions player is in game. Not that common, but still. Of course, the same applies to current adventurer spawning method.

I still want the mechanism moved to dll ASAP, but will wait till you are comfortable with it. If I can have someone do the work, who am I to interrupt
JK, as I said, will try to help.

For now, is there any chance to get my hands on the files? I feel weird adding new functions from forum posts
Just please make sure to mark things tomake them easy to look for

Like I said on #Erebus ([ADVERT] You people should get on there, you usually here things you wouldn't on the forums. Like certain upcoming projects... Talked about some of the new animals this morning, and a more secret project a few days ago. [/ADVERT]), I have plans for how to move it to the DLL.

I'm thinking of allowing the process to be activated by civilization, trait, civic, and maybe religion. Then have it increased (Added to, subtracted to, whatever... Addition/Subtraction only here) by Buildings, Events, Civics, Traits, Religion. Have it modified (division/multiplication) by buildings, events, civics, traits, religion. Wide open field. The starting tags will allow you to set the initial cap, the amount the cap is increased by each time, the initial rate (usually 0 or 1... Something low), what unit is being spawned, and one special boolean tag... AI only.

If AI-only is set to 1, the process will ONLY be started if the player it is attempting to fire off for is an AI. I'll be using that for the Scions, as the AI doesn't understand the random mechanic... Players will still have random spawning though.

All of this will likely wait until a certain other project is finished, but that hopefully won't take me too long.



As for the files, I assume you mean the python? Attached the three necessary files to the post....

CvEventManager I doubt you'll need. It just checks if the player is Grigori, if so fires of doTurnGrigori. Same as before, so you should have that already.

CustomFunctions is where the main changes are, but the changes are to two functions you already have.... doTurnGrigori and doChanceAdventurerSpawn.

CvMainInterface is for the display, but is only one block of code, altered from what you have.

All python is marked by either '# Start Grigori Adventurer spawning' or '# Grigori Adventurer spawning start'.



For the DLL, check these links:

DLL
DLL Spreadsheet

The affected files are CvPlayer.cpp, CvPlayer.h, CyPlayer.cpp, CyPlayer.h, and CyPlayerInterface2.cpp.

The DLL doesn't do anything at this point beyond store the variables... Necessary for save games to function correctly.

 

[Valkrionn]

This is in the patch, so have fun playing with the new system.

I'm hoping for some balance suggestions over the next few days.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Started a game. Had trouble with the animals (/understatement), so went to hunting rather than beelining education/mysticism. Was only getting 1 point towards that first hundred for the first 50 turns or so, and then building a museum around turn 60 got me a grand 1.3 points. Definitely a large step back, having to wait nearly a hundred turns for the first adventurer.

 

[Valkrionn]

From what we had before, yes. But it's still better than FfH's version, in my opinion.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

It needs something for an early Adventurer, something that doesn't require bee-lining a certain tech path. Grigori don't have anything else worth mentioning, so they have to be strong early on. Otherwise they can't capitalize on an early advantage, and without an early advantage the Grigori don't have much of any advantage at all.

 

[Valkrionn]

This is true. Like I said earlier, this is a preliminary version with values that seemed okay in my (very limited) playtesting. Counting on feedback to get the balance right.

An early boost is VERY easy to do. I could increase the value of the Palace, and then either up the cap slightly to compensate or up the amount it increases by, as the Palace would be worth more throughout the game.

A better method, IMO, and something I meant to add for the AI at least later on, is a modifier based on the number of Adventurers you currently have. Say, +3 a turn when you have none, decreasing by one for each additional adventurer? The problem is you then have to loop over all Grigori units each turn....

Maybe add another variable to the Player in the DLL (SpecialUnitCount? Could be used for others, after all) and when an Adventurer is spawned the count goes up... When killed/captured/lost in some way, it goes down. Then I just have to call the value of the variable, rather than looping over all units.

Actually, that could work pretty well... May do that for the next patch now....

 

[Dean_the_Young]

That sounds good. And, of course, you can always mix both; a small boost for the palace, and a more significant one based on number of adventurers.

Enhancement modifiers are nice, but forcing a bee-line to be on par seems like a bad path.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah.

Ideally, the Grigori would get modifiers on far more buildings, and have the scale made larger (1000 rather than 100?). You then have more control over the amounts buildings get... Maybe even improvements as well, though that would HAVE to be done in the DLL.

Say, out of a scale of 1000, give palisades a value of 1 or 2? (tenth of a point, current setup)

Would represent bored soldiers on the palisade, wishing to go exploring... Or telling children stories, inspiring THEM to go exploring. Either works.

Basically, I want to expand it to be a more fundamental thing, rather than just using a few scattered buildings. Could have some events affect the counter as well...

If necessary, we could have a NEGATIVE modifier based on the number of adventurers you have. The more you have, the less glamorous it is for the generation of children growing up watching, after all.

 

[Cyrusfan]

Would the Grigori World Spell reset the threshold for the adventurer counter then and leave GP alone?

 

[Valkrionn]

Either reset it, or do something similar... Opera had an idea for it, might track that down again.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah.

Ideally, the Grigori would get modifiers on far more buildings, and have the scale made larger (1000 rather than 100?). You then have more control over the amounts buildings get... Maybe even improvements as well, though that would HAVE to be done in the DLL.

Improvements? Well, our lore scholars have always insisted that the Grigori under Cassiel were semi-feudal farmers, though nothing quite supports that in-game.

A special type of farm for the Grigori, each giving a .X when worked? Of course, you'd have to scroll through every single farm and city in your empire...

I think the Grigori could use a distinct civic to reflect them, and would aid the counter.

Say, out of a scale of 1000, give palisades a value of 1 or 2? (tenth of a point, current setup)

Would represent bored soldiers on the palisade, wishing to go exploring... Or telling children stories, inspiring THEM to go exploring. Either works.

Well, I don't bother with palisades in general, so useful buildings would be better IMO. Soldiers are just as bored in baracks, where they have little else to do but tell wild stories.

If necessary, we could have a NEGATIVE modifier based on the number of adventurers you have. The more you have, the less glamorous it is for the generation of children growing up watching, after all.

I'd fundamentally disagree. The exploits of the previous generation are what motivate the next, and even FFH has entire national wonders (Heroic Epic, Tomb of the Champion) reflecting that.

A negative counter is tricky, but I think it would be best not to make any philosophical justification for it and just stick to mechanics.

 

[Darksaber1]

Improvements? Well, our lore scholars have always insisted that the Grigori under Cassiel were semi-feudal farmers, though nothing quite supports that in-game.

Well, that or an Anarcho-Communist Sydicate, but that's abit to Monty Python.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I sometimes like to call the Grigori system Anarcho-Feudalism, a term usually used by leftists mocking Anarcho-Capitalism.


Kael has established that Cassiel idealizes the Yeoman farmer and does not trust the mercantile interests that tend to dominate elected governments. His is a feudal system where the "nobles" don't really have any special privileges. They are appointed for life, typically chosen from the most average citizens although farmers are more likely to be chosen than city dwellers, I would not be surprised if most were chosen by lot. They never pass on their positions to their children. They receive no salary, no special lodgings or possessions, and have no right to tax anyone. They often act like Justices of the Peace and Notary Publics, but I think their main function is organizing the local volunteer militias. Obviously, that means they spend a lot of their times running bake sales, raffles, and other fundraisers in order to get the funds to pay for the defense of the community. I assume they also lead barn raisings and collect money to help care for widows and orphans, at least for those whose husbands and fathers died serving with them in the militia. Overall they are more community organizers than governors. Although not officially stated, I'm pretty sure that they can be forced out of office by petition.



What would you think about making it so that Grigori farms have a chance of spawning limited duration militia units when invaded? I'm thinking probably warriors most of the time, nothing on par with professional armies of their enemies at their tech level but enough to slow down invasions a bit. Or, what if these militia units were of decent strength but had promotions making them AI controlled, to represent how badly organized their militia is.

 

[Jheral]

Improvements? Well, our lore scholars have always insisted that the Grigori under Cassiel were semi-feudal farmers, though nothing quite supports that in-game.

A special type of farm for the Grigori, each giving a .X when worked? Of course, you'd have to scroll through every single farm and city in your empire...

What would you think about making it so that Grigori farms have a chance of spawning limited duration militia units when invaded? I'm thinking probably warriors most of the time, nothing on par with professional armies of their enemies at their tech level but enough to slow down invasions a bit. Or, what if these militia units were of decent strength but had promotions making them AI controlled, to represent how badly organized their militia is.

How about having Villages and Towns provide the bonus/militia, instead (possibly have them give different amounts/troop quality, too)? It would make sense, since they would have more of a population to draw from (in the case of the militia) and more people who could be inspired to become Adventurers (in the case of adding to the Adventurer counter), and it would mean that you can't just add a new improvement and expect instant results.

 

[Valkrionn]

Villages and Towns would be a no; Too close to the Bannor. A Grigori-specific Farm upgrade could work though.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

I sometimes like to call the Grigori system Anarcho-Feudalism, a term usually used by leftists mocking Anarcho-Capitalism.


Kael has established that Cassiel idealizes the Yeoman farmer and does not trust the mercantile interests that tend to dominate elected governments. His is a feudal system where the "nobles" don't really have any special privileges. They are appointed for life, typically chosen from the most average citizens although farmers are more likely to be chosen than city dwellers, I would not be surprised if most were chosen by lot. They never pass on their positions to their children. They receive no salary, no special lodgings or possessions, and have no right to tax anyone. They often act like Justices of the Peace and Notary Publics, but I think their main function is organizing the local volunteer militias. Obviously, that means they spend a lot of their times running bake sales, raffles, and other fundraisers in order to get the funds to pay for the defense of the community. I assume they also lead barn raisings and collect money to help care for widows and orphans, at least for those whose husbands and fathers died serving with them in the militia. Overall they are more community organizers than governors. Although not officially stated, I'm pretty sure that they can be forced out of office by petition.

And then Auric invades, and they have to start a system something that works.

What would you think about making it so that Grigori farms have a chance of spawning limited duration militia units when invaded? I'm thinking probably warriors most of the time, nothing on par with professional armies of their enemies at their tech level but enough to slow down invasions a bit. Or, what if these militia units were of decent strength but had promotions making them AI controlled, to represent how badly organized their militia is.

Something like a far-more likely chance of a Treant in an ancient forest?

It could be good, but ixnay on the AI. AI controlled units only serve as xp fodder, and you need player control to mass them for any effect.