New IGN info on Warlords

[Watiggi]

I don't know. I think the Vassal State is going to be tedius at best. By the sounds of it *all* it is, is an alliance where your score factors in their land.

I expected a more complete one sided alliance which allowed co-operation and what not. Hmmm maybe there is more here than meets the eye. The fact that it can be disolved means that there must be something that has to be done to keep the Vassal State. So maybe there is.

Watiggi

 

[Atropos]

I'm guessing Hannibal may be fin/char. If so, he will have an ancient age UU. That is, he will not only have the strongest traits but a UU coming at a crucial time.

This is going to be worse than the Maya in cIII. They had better tone down the charismatic trait.

 

[101rstImperial]

Man, finnally the Great Wall will be worth the time.

Good show !

 

[Mesix]

One thing to keep in mind is, older leaders may change traits too. If Shaka becomes Agg/Exp, I wouldn't be surprised to see Genghis Khan switch over to either Agg/Imp or Imp/Exp.

You bring up a good point. If they do change the traits of Vanila leaders, Isabella and Elizabeth would be good candidates for the inperialistic trait.

 

[Atropos]

You bring up a good point. If they do change the traits of Vanila leaders, Isabella and Elizabeth would be good candidates for the inperialistic trait.

Victoria, yes. Elizabeth, no. She had no empire to speak of and her efforts to acquire one were limited to sponsoring a few voyages.

 

[Gumbolt]

I hope they do change some of the old leader traits. For starters take the Russians and English off Financial as if these civs need it those UU can win games anyway .

 

[Watiggi]

I'm guessing Hannibal may be fin/char. If so, he will have an ancient age UU. That is, he will not only have the strongest traits but a UU coming at a crucial time.

This is going to be worse than the Maya in cIII. They had better tone down the charismatic trait.

What's wrong with the Charismatic trait?

I think it was already said that Hannibal was going to get the same UU that he got in CivIII.

Protective trait gives Drill I and Drill II to Archers and Artillery. I wonder if that means seige in general or specifically Artillery?

Watiggi

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I don't know. I think the Vassal State is going to be tedius at best. By the sounds of it *all* it is, is an alliance where your score factors in their land.

I expected a more complete one sided alliance which allowed co-operation and what not. Hmmm maybe there is more here than meets the eye. The fact that it can be disolved means that there must be something that has to be done to keep the Vassal State. So maybe there is.

Watiggi

Well I think I remember hearing that you whoever they are at war with, You are at war with.

I'd imagine it would work like
1. They lose the right to declare War on another power
2. Whenever someone Declares War on The Vassal, that someone declares war on the Master
3. Whenever the Master Declares War on someone, the Vassal Declares War on them too
4. The Vassal Pays the Master some Tribute (hopefully based on Vassal population or total commerce)
5. Their territory counts as yours for domination.

I'm thinking "Protectorate" is a more realistic term for this relationship

Additional things, that Might be a part of it
Master gets vassal's extra resources?
Master regulates who vassal trades resources with?...Possibly
Vassal has Open borders only with those Master does?...Possibly
Master gets vassal's Wonder benefits?.. Probably Not.
Master gets Vassal's votes in UN?...Probably not, but maybe




On Protective, if by Artillery they mean All Siege units, then that means
1. Machine guns become more useful (as do SAMs if you upgrade them from Machine Guns)
2. This actually makes protective an Offensive Trait, because it means that "suicide cats" aren't that 'suicidal' (max out City Raider on them instead of Collateral Damage, and they should survive most attacks, especially with their retreat ability).. also Cats would beat Axemen in the field

 

[Aegis]

I'm hoping for a War-Elephant UU for Hannibal but I don't think I'm going to get my wish. =o/

 

[Gumbolt]

Leak leak leak must be a release soon. Should have guessed E3 would give more civ 4 info. Betting in a week or 2 all the new units will be leaked somewhere. then the replacement buildings for each civ.

If protective covers all archery units like longbowmen and crossbowmen that will really make it fun. Although might make attacking some AI civs a real headache.

With a barrack and other civics thats 4 promotions on a unit in a reasonably early/mid part of game. I think this trait is probably just right balance. Perhaps we can finally see peace in our civ 4 times. Well least till you get knights that are not affected by first strike. It will be interesting to see how many civs have the new traits.

Perhaps someone could start a archer rush topic. Is this now possible? crossbowmen rush? Stack of crossbowmen with artilery? Could it happen?

I do like the idea of other trait offering quicker settler production by 25%. Perhaps this is why they reduced chopping strength. Apart from fact it made starting strategies a bit chopping mad.

Still lots to look forward to. Chin up all not long to wait.

 

[Monker]

On Protective, if by Artillery they mean All Siege units

If protective covers all archery units like longbowmen and crossbowmen ...

I was wondering about this too...is it just artillery and archers, or all seige and archery units?

 

[Atropos]

What's wrong with the Charismatic trait?

I think it was already said that Hannibal was going to get the same UU that he got in CivIII.

Protective trait gives Drill I and Drill II to Archers and Artillery. I wonder if that means seige in general or specifically Artillery?

Watiggi

Happiness is incredibly important in this game on high levels. Charismatic would literally increase the maximum output of your civ by 50% (4 citizens to 6) in the early game.

 

[Bongo-Bongo]

I'm hoping for a War-Elephant UU for Hannibal but I don't think I'm going to get my wish. =o/

It's already been confirmed that all but one Civ are having the same UU as in CivIII. I cant remember which one it was, but it wasn't Carthage so no Elephant

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

The Ottomans are the only ones to get a new UU. They got the Janissary instead of the Sipahi.

 

[Watiggi]

Happiness is incredibly important in this game on high levels. Charismatic would literally increase the maximum output of your civ by 50% (4 citizens to 6) in the early game.

That would make any Organised/Charismatic trait combination pretty usefull on the higher levels then.

 

[Yva!n]

Perhaps someone could start a archer rush topic. Is this now possible? crossbowmen rush? Stack of crossbowmen with artilery? Could it happen?

I played around with a Longbow rush that may be much more effective with the 'protective' trait. You use the Oracle to slingshot Feudalism, which gives you several nice civics (vassalage, hereditary rule), pretty early. You could pump out what? drill 3 longbows? which could be a decent offensive unit. It makes your country pretty much unassailable.

 

[Bierp]

Oh, another point. I was really hoping for the addition of a new specialist in this expansion-related to the addition of the Great General.
Namely, I was hoping for a soldier specialist who can reduce the time it takes to build units and who could also generate points towards getting a great General.
I wonder if they can implement this before the release date? It would just be nice to have a 'non-violent' means to get a Great General.

Aussie_Lurker.

I tend to play a less aggressive style myself, and your suggestion has some appeal to me, but I think it lacks a historical reality.

How many 'great generals' can you name that haven't made their name because of a war or at very least a warlike conflict? Is it even possible to become a general without some real wartime experience? (possibly, but a 'great general'?)

Despite my preference for a more diplomatic approach, I think they may have this one right.

B


Luke: I'm looking for a great warrior
Yoda: mmm, wars not make one great.

 

[microbe]

The Genghis Khan scenario is so cool, can't wait to play it.

 

[Watiggi]

I bet you some funny screenshots are going to appear now that the Great Wall is actually in the main game map! I can just see it now with the wall going through an aquaduct or through a horses face or having an elephant straddled over the Great Wall, just like the elephant was in one of the other funny screenshots.

The Genghis Khan scenario is so cool, can't wait to play it.

I wonder if the Mongols in the scenario actually get to build cities or what not.

 

[Mewtarthio]

I'd imagine that the Great Wall wonder is going to be a World Project rather than a Great Wonder. It'd also be nice if the wall would stop anyone crossing it without Open Borders with the owning Civ (that is, moving over it would expend all movement points).