New US tariffs kick in on $16 billion of Chinese goods

[FriendlyFire]

Good news coal miners and farmers, the US has been Winning, please enjoy getting it good and hard.
Hope you dont get tired of winning, because looks like the US is about to double down.

New US tariffs kick in on $16 billion of Chinese goods

At 12.01 a.m. EDT on Thursday, the U.S. began collecting additional 25 percent duties on 279 Chinese import product categories identified by U.S. Trade Representative. Key products that will be hit by the duties include semiconductors, chemicals, plastics, motorbikes and electric scooters.

"The gulf between the Trump administration and the Chinese is as wide as the Pacific and it looks like it's getting wider because the Trump administration thinks they are winning," Kennedy told CNBC.

"The Chinese don't look like they want to give in either.

Trump has threatened to impose duties on over $500 billion of Chinese goods exported annually to the U.S. unless China agrees to sweeping changes in its intellectual property practices, industrial subsidy programs and tariff structure.

Beijing has denied Washington's allegations that it systematically forces the unfair transfer of U.S. technology and insists it adheres to World Trade Organization rules.

"I think really if the hawks in the Trump administration get their way, where this ends is in a disengagement of the two economies, not in a settlement through the kinds of negotiations that have been going on in Washington today," said Kennedy.

Afterall, these are "two sides who still think they have the upper hand if not the ability to withstand pressure from the other side," Kennedy added, noting that the Chinese economy is still growing even though its stock markets have taken a hit recently.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/23/us-...d-of-american-tariffs-on-chinese-imports.html

 

[Broken_Erika]

And if the Chinese still don't back down, they'll end ALL trade with them and claim victory!

 

[FriendlyFire]

I hope Trump also carries out hes threat of more tariffs against the EU, Mexico, Canada, Japan, India and South Korea.
With Narravo and Ross both being sycophants I hope these new tariffs go into action within the next month so that the damage from the trade war (& budget deficets) will be baked into 2020 Which is also when the cap on Argicultural bailouts will run out

 

[GenMarshall]

Should have stayed in the Pacific Trade partnership to counter China's dirty trade tactics.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I hope Trump also carries out hes threat of more tariffs against the EU, Mexico, Canada, Japan, India and South Korea.
With Narravo and Ross both being sycophants I hope these new tariffs go into action within the next month so that the damage from the trade war (& budget deficets) will be baked into 2020 Which is also when the cap on Argicultural bailouts will run out

The trade war with Europe is on hold for now because Juncker made some meaningless noncommitments.

Should have stayed in the Pacific Trade partnership to counter China's dirty trade tactics.

Absolutely not. Ending that corpocratic travesty of a trade deal is perhaps the only good thing the Trump administration has ever done.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Absolutely not. Ending that corpocratic travesty of a trade deal is perhaps the only good thing the Trump administration has ever done.

Thanks Trump, no more onerous US IP protections, no more onerous US pharma protections and no more onerous US argicultural dumping
Now South Korea, Taiwan and Indonesia are eager to join.

 

[Quintillus]

Looks like the administration is tired of all the scooters buzzing around D.C.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Looks like the administration is tired of all the scooters buzzing around D.C.

Real Americans drive SUVs!

 

[Dachs]

Real Americans drive SUVs!

Fortunately, Ford is getting rid of some of its smaller car lines to focus on vaporware electric SUVs. They're confident that drivers want less interior space, shorter range, and higher prices in exchange for a higher vantage point.

 

[Farm Boy]

Should have stayed in the Pacific Trade partnership to counter China's dirty trade tactics.

Probably, but the foolish will still assume the devil they don't know is better. Plus, you know, that $3,000 to compensate for obliterating a goodly portion of operating income. The dirty dogs.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Probably, but the foolish will still assume the devil they don't know is better. Plus, you know, that $3,000 to compensate for obliterating a goodly portion of operating income. The dirty dogs.

Let them eat Soy !
The depression era bailouts are capped at 30 Bil, which allows Trump to pracel it out for around 2-3 years just enough for him to be relected.
At that point the US economy will probably implode and argicultural bailouts will be the least of the problems.

 

[Commodore]

I know this thread is focused on the US/China trade war, but I figured I'd post this here since I don't think it warrants its own thread:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ammo...g-chance-trump-wants-trade-war-183723731.html

Canada is out of ammunition to fire back at the United States if NAFTA talks fall apart and the Trump administration ramps up trade aggression, according to experts monitoring the negotiations.
Ottawa’s counter-tariffs on American steel, aluminum and a list of goods ranging from pens to playing cards have put $300 million in government coffers, according to the Canada Border Service Agency. Canada has pledged to keep the measures in place until the U.S. lifts its duties on Canadian steel and aluminum.
That counter-punch isn’t having a big enough impact on American companies and states that sell goods north of the border, according to Harper-era trade advisor Adam Taylor. He said U.S. officials have not been convinced to go easy on Canada, and Ottawa has little recourse if trade attacks escalate.
“It seems like we sort of emptied our clip,” he told Yahoo Canada Finance. “We have significantly more to lose, and the Americans know it.”
The U.S. and Mexico are pushing Canada to sign a deal by the end of September or face exclusion from the pact. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has made it clear that Canada will not agree to a deal that does not represent his country’s best interests.

So looks like the US and Mexico are putting the screws to Canada and forcing them to sign a deal that's bad for them.

Maybe Trudeau should have thought twice before getting all belligerent towards Trump earlier in the year seeing as he now simply doesn't have the ability to stop Trump from using this trade war to humiliate Trudeau.

So what's it going to be Canada? Are you going to accept a trade deal that sucks for you so you can stay in NAFTA, or are you going to stick to your guns and get screwed even harder than if you just roll over and take the bad deal?

 

[Broken_Erika]

Just wait until someone sane is in the oval office, it's rather obvious at this point that any agreement with the current US administration isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

[Commodore]

Just wait until someone sane is in the oval office, it's rather obvious at this point that any agreement with the current US administration isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Mexico seems to think it is. They are joining in with the US in pressuring Canada to accept the new deal. My question though is why Canada is resisting this? I thought they were committed to globalism, but now they are acting in a very selfish and nationalistic manner by refusing to accept a deal simply because it doesn't solely benefit Canadians. I say shame on Canada for not being a team player and actively working towards damaging their relations with both the US and Mexico.

 

[Zelig]

It's not clear that Trump can get rid of NAFTA anyway, and even if he could, he's likely to be gone in a couple years.

Doesn't make any sense to sign a long-term disadvantageous deal with the current administration of the USA.

Also, resisting Trump is hugely advantageous with the electorate. Trudeau's numbers are the highest they've been in years despite all his other fumbles.

Maybe Trudeau should have thought twice before getting all belligerent towards Trump earlier in the year

That isn't a thing that happened.

Trump from using this trade war to humiliate Trudeau.

That isn't a thing Trump has the ability to do. I think Trudeau is a political lightweight, but there's literally nothing Trump could do that would make me think less of Trudeau, other than maybe beating Trudeau is a fist fight.

Are you going to accept a trade deal that sucks for you so you can stay in NAFTA, or are you going to stick to your guns and get screwed even harder than if you just roll over and take the bad deal?

The latter option please.

 

[El_Machinae]

Commodore, you have no real idea what the negotiated changes were, neither do I. But it's clear you're parroting echo-chamber news sources on the topic. The entire flow of your sentences, starting from stating exaggerated falsehoods to ending on an (incorrect) moralistic stance, indicates this.

The Mexico/USA arrangement (despite what Trump says) really isn't in the final lap. We've got two sketchy commitments from two entities that might not have the political power to enact their deal. Trump doesn't have the authority to negotiate a deal that excludes Canada. Mexico won't get a deal built that can be signed by the outgoing president in time.

Remember, Trump walked into negotiations with lies and with abusing his security powers. And, well, no real sign that he understood positive-sum trade. Maybe some people want to want his deal, because they want Trump to score a political success. I dunno. I have no real loyalty to Canada's supply management, but if trimming it was win/win, then maybe sending someone to negotiate who begins with lies and actual attacks isn't the right way to handle it.

Trump is a bad-faith actor. I'd think differently about NAFTA negotiations if an odious piece of scum wasn't sent bearing threats. Honestly, I'd be happy to bail out Canadian dairy farmers and then buy taxpayer subsidized American milk and use the savings to do better things with our land, people, and money.

 

[Zelig]

Most American milk wouldn't be allowed on the Canadian market for qualitative reasons anyway. (rBST)

 

[El_Machinae]

Doesn't matter, really. I'm happy to buy a subsidized input into an economy. They'd modify their output to meet our demand and then subsidize it to our benefit.

Of course, since the Republican Party has decided to be the party of Climate Cheating, we'd have to continue to resist their dairy industry. They'd be effectively foisting their waste emissions onto us as well. But I have faith that the climate cheating is temporary. The subsidized food would be a permanent boost for us.

 

[Commodore]

It's not clear that Trump can get rid of NAFTA anyway,

We aren't talking about getting rid of it, we are talking about renegotiating it. Mexico's already on board. It's only Canada that's acting like an obstinate child here.

Also, resisting Trump is hugely advantageous with the electorate.

Sure, now it is. But what about when the US and Mexico start ramping up the pressure and the Canadian economy really starts to feel the pain? People tend to get real angry when the economy starts to tank and the current administration always takes the blame whether it is really their fault or not.

I think Trudeau is a political lightweight,

You're right, and that's precisely why you should have a problem with him. He is incapable of protecting Canada's interests when faced with a government that has no interest in being polite or nice to him. He doesn't realize that not all problems can be solved with words or in a civilized manner. Sometimes you have to be the bully to get what you want and Trudeau refuses to accept that fact. Just look at the whole kerfluffle with Saudi Arabia. That ended with Trudeau begging Canada's allies to assist in deescalating that whole situation because Trudeau simply didn't have the stones to deal with it. And he certainly doesn't have the stones to win a trade war with the US and Mexico.

The latter option please.

So you're okay with wrecking your country's economy just to avoid handing Trump a win? You're a real patriot.

That isn't a thing Trump has the ability to do.

Sure he does. Maybe not with Canadians, but he can sure humiliate Trudeau internationally. By bullying him into a deal he doesn't want (which will happen eventually) it will show the world that Trudeau, and by extension Canada itself, doesn't have the ability to stand up for the nation's interests. At that point, what motivation would any nation have to treat Canada with anything resembling respect?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Mexico seems to think it is. They are joining in with the US in pressuring Canada to accept the new deal. My question though is why Canada is resisting this? I thought they were committed to globalism, but now they are acting in a very selfish and nationalistic manner by refusing to accept a deal simply because it doesn't solely benefit Canadians. I say shame on Canada for not being a team player and actively working towards damaging their relations with both the US and Mexico.

My Question is why Mexico choose not to have Canada back, because Canada and mexico have long insisted that there can be no bilaterial trade agreement thus strengthening both Canada and Mexico negotiation position
By Agreeing in principle to a Bilateral agreement it seems Mexico is eager for a deal which pretty much given the token concessions offered changes basically nothing. A total of three car models are affected by the new regulations. Then again Mexico is the smallest economically of the three in NAFTA and there current government has been thrown out so Mexico wants to lock in an agreement as it will become near impossible with the new Mexican government. Then there is legal problems for exiting NAFTA and signing a new trade agreement

Canada on the other hand has been backed into a corner, first with lumber tarriffs, then (iirc) Coal and now Steel / aluminum tariffs. The US has been violating NAFTA by slapping tarriffs on Canadian exports for a while now
Now the US want dairy removed ? even though Canada entire industry is smaller then Wisconsin. Even if Canada makes a deal the damage has been done

Just like how Chinese views US cars as a Luxury status symbol, that's finished now