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pineappledan

Deity
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
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Alberta, Canada
Definitely, Prince is not my usual difficulty, but I wanted to make absolutely sure I would survive to late game, but then a ton of other things also broke my way (only founder on my continent, neighbours expanded away from me, good start location, etc.). I wanted to get a feel for Germany in a sandbox, and I think their early game is in a very strong place now.

The German AI does have some code that makes him gift more, but he should also be biased towards making more units. I haven’t got the time to test an AI game against him though.
I did not do the math, but losing the influence after the units get upgraded could mean that building and gifting units is less efficient than building diplomatic units, especially later in the game
I just want to point out that yes, there is no possible way that unit gifting for per-turn influence could ever compete with an immediate lump of influence after the mid game. Diplomatic units get more and more instant influence as the game progresses, meanwhile there are fewer turns before the game ends. Units also obsolete faster in the end game. There aren’t enough turns in the game left to make a per-turn mechanic compete with an instant one, and that’s okay.
 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
Yeah, comments about sample size withstanding, it seems higher difficulties dramatically diminish the power of Germany's current UA:

1) AIs are free to gift more military, earlier, filling up CS quicker.

2) More army is needed at home to prevent invasion early on, unfortunately conflicting with the most critical time to send units

3) AIs tech faster letting CS upgrade units faster, losing potential influence.

Can only envision a fix being that Germany has the unique ability to always be able send units even when CS are full (maybe even if it's only directly by them being in CS territory). It's a fun UA in theory and would be a shame to lose it.


To be fair this was also the issue with Germany's old UA. And probably will be with any CS based ability.

I don't think it is even possible to balance for prince and deity and maybe it should be balanced around a slightly higher difficulty it should still lean towards prince.
 

filipop

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 3, 2022
Messages
4
To be fair this was also the issue with Germany's old UA. And probably will be with any CS based ability.

I don't think it is even possible to balance for prince and deity and maybe it should be balanced around a slightly higher difficulty it should still lean towards prince.

That's a fair remark re: difficulty. To that point, I think the biggest issue is the inability to give units to CS because they don't accept any, rather than any balance concern. It's not fun to spend time clicking CSs to see who's accepting new recruits - even less fun when for most of the game they don't accept any.
 

Dimmy

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
97
I did read the change-log but was wondering if there was anything else done on top that maybe made the AI weaker? I'm asking because last game on 2.3.1 AI seemed to be pretty strong and I actually managed to lose to a culture victory.
I agree with that. AIs seem to be more rational so more predictable and you can really have a peaceful development till mid or even late game without threats. I am even the most aggressive neighbor, out of boredom and tech superiority. I am on emperor, maybe I should move up? Just feel like there is no danger at all when keeping my military up to half my cap limit.
 

Recursive

Already Looping
Moderator
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Dec 19, 2017
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That's a fair remark re: difficulty. To that point, I think the biggest issue is the inability to give units to CS because they don't accept any, rather than any balance concern. It's not fun to spend time clicking CSs to see who's accepting new recruits - even less fun when for most of the game they don't accept any.

This will be changed for next version.
 

abulafia77

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Messages
54
Capitulation seems still a bit broken - capitulation offered, "what deal will end this conflict" adds a city but cannot be accepted:

upload_2022-7-7_20-55-49.png
 

maxaug999

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Messages
32
Open an issue on Github please.
Done,
Is there a page to send proposition too or can we do it here ?
It could be nice if the trade route Panel Popup could open to the last used trade route Position, it can get really annoying, especially at the last Eras to search for it
And also remove the Trade Deals that bot make constantly like "5 oils for 4 golds" or "2 uranium for 5Gold"
 

greenfieldpark

Warlord
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
137
Loaded up this latest version and noticed the AI seems quite a bit less aggressive. They will declare war on each other, and the player, but they seem to have serious difficulty in gaining any ground. Let alone cities. In previous versions I found them extremely aggressive and capable. To the extent that I was always trying to extend and maximize my unit cap to adequately counter their attacks. These last few games i've been able to just turtle and attack at my leisure. Even if they declared war on me they did not send a massive wave of troops at me like in the past making it easy to repel them.

I play on both diety and the difficulty just below that.

Is this just a bad sample size, seeing as it was only 3 games or so, or has the mod changed substantially in this regard?
 

greenfieldpark

Warlord
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
137
Done,
Is there a page to send proposition too or can we do it here ?
It could be nice if the trade route Panel Popup could open to the last used trade route Position, it can get really annoying, especially at the last Eras to search for it
And also remove the Trade Deals that bot make constantly like "5 oils for 4 golds" or "2 uranium for 5Gold"

Actually do we even need the trade offers from the ai? Maybe an option to disable it. When playing with lots of ai the mid to late game gets pretty clicky in between turns. If I want a trade I can go to them. Would speed up the late, and bigger games up quite a bit.
 

CppMaster

Emperor
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
1,608
Location
Poland
Actually do we even need the trade offers from the ai? Maybe an option to disable it. When playing with lots of ai the mid to late game gets pretty clicky in between turns. If I want a trade I can go to them. Would speed up the late, and bigger games up quite a bit.
Great idea! As long as it's optional to disable them, of course.
 

adac

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
92
Already an option in diploAIOptions.sql; just change the 0 in this section to either 1 or 2, depending on the behavior you want:

-- [DISABLE TRADE OFFERS]
-- If set to 1, AI civilizations will not send trade offers to human players, except peace offers and offers to renew an existing deal.
-- If set to 2, AI civilizations will only send peace offers, NOT offers to renew an existing deal.
-- Humans can still trade with AI players on their own turn.
-- Does not prevent the AI from making demands.
-- NOTE: To disable peace offers, see the setting directly below.
INSERT INTO Defines (Name, Value)
SELECT 'DIPLOAI_DISABLE_TRADE_OFFERS', '0';
 

Tekamthi

King
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
621
Already an option in diploAIOptions.sql; just change the 0 in this section to either 1 or 2, depending on the behavior you want:

-- [DISABLE TRADE OFFERS]
-- If set to 1, AI civilizations will not send trade offers to human players, except peace offers and offers to renew an existing deal.
-- If set to 2, AI civilizations will only send peace offers, NOT offers to renew an existing deal.
-- Humans can still trade with AI players on their own turn.
-- Does not prevent the AI from making demands.
-- NOTE: To disable peace offers, see the setting directly below.
INSERT INTO Defines (Name, Value)
SELECT 'DIPLOAI_DISABLE_TRADE_OFFERS', '0';

ideally it would be nice to be able to toggle it on/off in-game somehow, from one turn to the next.. sometimes its useful, though often tedious as described, 'specially in 43-civ
 

greenfieldpark

Warlord
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
137
Already an option in diploAIOptions.sql; just change the 0 in this section to either 1 or 2, depending on the behavior you want:

-- [DISABLE TRADE OFFERS]
-- If set to 1, AI civilizations will not send trade offers to human players, except peace offers and offers to renew an existing deal.
-- If set to 2, AI civilizations will only send peace offers, NOT offers to renew an existing deal.
-- Humans can still trade with AI players on their own turn.
-- Does not prevent the AI from making demands.
-- NOTE: To disable peace offers, see the setting directly below.
INSERT INTO Defines (Name, Value)
SELECT 'DIPLOAI_DISABLE_TRADE_OFFERS', '0';
Oh wow amazing! You guys are absolute best. Civ 6 was just awful for me. The fact that civ 5s life has been extended for me up to at least civ 7 is fantastic. Thanks a ton again.

Was going to wait to play another game once my other concern was addressed but this simple fix makes me excited for a mid to late game now.

That being said. Has anyone else noticed the ai not as good at conquering both their neighbors and the human player?
 

greenfieldpark

Warlord
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
137
Yes :( The case was reported here recently several times

Hmm. I noticed quite a few options in that diploaioptions file. One seems to toggle ai super aggression. I may just try that and see how that goes.

Because i did indeed start a new game. Forward settled greece like a dick. They are hostile to me, and their hoplites could do some serious damage against me. And yet they dont declare war.
 

CppMaster

Emperor
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
1,608
Location
Poland
Yeah, if Alexander with Hoplites doesn't want to attack a forward settler then this is concerning :D
 

Bruhmoment

Prince
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
428
Location
Your mom's house
Interesting. I saw the iroquois declare war on me for forward settling them like crazy, but that's pretty much the only REAL war I've seen
 

greenfieldpark

Warlord
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
137
Ho
Interesting. I saw the iroquois declare war on me for forward settling them like crazy, but that's pretty much the only REAL war I've seen
Howd that war go? Because the greeks eventually did declare war on me. But they arnt pushing forward. They move a few troops forward, take minimal damage then retreat the entire army.
 

beginner_

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
47
Loaded up this latest version and noticed the AI seems quite a bit less aggressive. They will declare war on each other, and the player, but they seem to have serious difficulty in gaining any ground. Let alone cities. In previous versions I found them extremely aggressive and capable. To the extent that I was always trying to extend and maximize my unit cap to adequately counter their attacks. These last few games i've been able to just turtle and attack at my leisure. Even if they declared war on me they did not send a massive wave of troops at me like in the past making it easy to repel them.

I play on both diety and the difficulty just below that.

Is this just a bad sample size, seeing as it was only 3 games or so, or has the mod changed substantially in this regard?

I play on much lower level (Prince) and only 1 game on 2.4.4 so far. What I did notice that the AI was much more tolerant of my warmongering. First I took Germany and their neighbor Japan was the only one that didn't like it and then declared war on me. The other 3 all remained friendly. I was best buddies with Denmark and Spain for most of the game including declarations of friendship. Only after I took Japans and Polands captial did they start to get angry.
Spain then indeed also declared war but that only played into my hand really.

In essence I had a much, much easier time. like 1 or 2 levels easier.


Already an option in diploAIOptions.sql; just change the 0 in this section to either 1 or 2, depending on the behavior you want:

-- [DISABLE TRADE OFFERS]
-- If set to 1, AI civilizations will not send trade offers to human players, except peace offers and offers to renew an existing deal.
-- If set to 2, AI civilizations will only send peace offers, NOT offers to renew an existing deal.
-- Humans can still trade with AI players on their own turn.
-- Does not prevent the AI from making demands.
-- NOTE: To disable peace offers, see the setting directly below.
INSERT INTO Defines (Name, Value)
SELECT 'DIPLOAI_DISABLE_TRADE_OFFERS', '0';

Would it be possible to have an option to only block deals for resources? I don't mind about open borders, research agreements, and so forth. The annoying part are strategic resources which the AI simply never offers enough. Especially coal when I know they must be lacking I'm not giving them for less than 1 gpt so they can build factories. The AI should value strategics far more. Like in reality we see now with natural gas...
 
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