New Version - April 20th (4/20)

[Chandler]

@Gazebo https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/india.535669/page-9#post-14687380

I may have take for granted that you really were going to do that, sorry

 

[NikMuazHakim]

(5)more luxury isn't showing in mod list, needs to take old modinfo and replace new one for some odd reason. 3rd time already after the same amount of time deleting cache. Thank you for the update!

 

[cammcken]

"

• Splash Damage - 5 splash damage to all enemies adjacent to target (requires Barrage 2)
• Splash Damage II - 5 splash damage to all enemies adjacent to target"

Is this really a good idea? Flat damage independent of combat-strength?

Is this a good idea to include splash damage at all? I mean, you're giving catapults the same Area of Effect as a nuclear missile, albeit reduced damage. It further skews Civ5's already messed up scaling system. After a while, I can tolerate imagining that two tiles — the width of a sizeable island — is actually smaller than it appears when archers are firing across it, but I don't know if I can stretch my imagination so far to include the projectile/volley itself. I liked what was done with one-range units; I thought CPO was moving toward the direction of more-realistic.

 

[Gazebo]

Is this a good idea to include splash damage at all? I mean, you're giving catapults the same Area of Effect as a nuclear missile, albeit reduced damage. It further skews Civ5's already messed up scaling system. After a while, I can tolerate imagining that two tiles — the width of a sizeable island — is actually smaller than it appears when archers are firing across it, but I don't know if I can stretch my imagination so far to include the projectile/volley itself. I liked what was done with one-range units; I thought CPO was moving toward the direction of more-realistic.

Nah, realism has its limits. Besides, asking for perfect realism in a Civ game is a bit much - Bismarck v. Gandhi v. Dido, anyone?

 

[cammcken]

Bismarck v. Gandhi v. Dido, anyone?

THOSE historical inaccuracies I consider part of the "What could have happened" aspect, and the leaders are just figureheads. An accurate combat simulation is of a little more interest to me, for the immersion. I like to imagine what great host is being represented by the symbolic handful of animations that are given.

But okay... so long as you've considered it.

 

[Gazebo]

THOSE historical inaccuracies I consider part of the "What could have happened" aspect, and the leaders are just figureheads. An accurate combat simulation is of a little more interest to me, for the immersion. I like to imagine what great host is being represented by the symbolic handful of animations that are given.

But okay... so long as you've considered it.

Well, if you consider that troops are representations of armies taking up 50+ square miles, then think of it this way- siege units with Splash damage would represent a siege unit that has been trained to fire over a much wider area than other siege units. So the minimal damage to neighboring units is a consequence of this spread.

G

 

[Gazebo]

@Gazebo https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/india.535669/page-9#post-14687380

I may have take for granted that you really were going to do that, sorry

Mmm, misunderstood you. Yeah, it should work that way now. I didn't test the change, so if it doesn't let me know and I'll look more closely.

G

 

[Stalker0]

For transcendence, sounds like someone should go that thread in general balance and discuss it. There are religion threads already there waiting to be used

 

[CrazyG]

For transcendence, sounds like someone should go that thread in general balance and discuss it. There are religion threads already there waiting to be used

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tuning-religion-founder-beliefs-round-2.611721/

There hasn't been too much discussion, possibly because no one has really advocated that Way o' T isn't too strong.

 

[tu_79]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tuning-religion-founder-beliefs-round-2.611721/

There hasn't been too much discussion, possibly because no one has really advocated that Way o' T isn't too strong.

I take it by default if I manage to enhance before middle age, and don't have any set plans yet.

 

[intelli]

Don't know if WoT needs that big a nerf as the boosts on era don't really scale well past Renaissance in comparison to those with percentage boosts.

Still don't know when I'm going to take Accuracy over Barrage, shouldn't it be more like 15% vs full health as units will rarely have 100% health. Say a unit takes 4 ranged hits to kill, Barrage wins every time?

Edit - nevermind just seen Accuracy has a higher RCS boost, not very clear in the info.

 

[Funak]

Don't know if WoT needs that big a nerf as the boosts on era don't really scale well past Renaissance in comparison to those with percentage boosts

I haven't actually tried it since the change, but before the change it always felt underwhelming. As Enginseer mentioned earlier in this thread, it just scales poorly and doesn't measure up to the other founders in the long run.
That being said, it giving you production, which pretty much translates into a free wonder is clearly a problem, maybe time for a different approach?

 

[intelli]

Religion is full of early boosts vs long term yields already, don't see the problem myself. It's not a must get, certainly not for civs that will have a lot of WLTKDs or GAs.

 

[Deadstarre]

like so many things in the mod, WOT is completely out of whack and entirely OP. it's not even a question

any word on fixing the absolute mess that is trading values at the moment? or is luxuries for 3gpt well into the late game the new norm ?

 

[peterw1987]

In previous version, there is some trade bug. It already happened to me 3 or 4 times.
Dunno if G tweaked something about this.


I was still in clasiccal era, and AI(mostly ethiopia iirc) will value my luxuries for almost 1200. I trade my luxury 1:1 and still have 800+ value left. Not long after that, he immediately befriended me, which followed by 2 or 3 other civs. This is deity difficulty thou.

 

[Gazebo]

like so many things in the mod, WOT is completely out of whack and entirely OP. it's not even a question

any word on fixing the absolute mess that is trading values at the moment? or is luxuries for 3gpt well into the late game the new norm ?

You tend to do this, yet offer no actual, tangible constructive criticism. Provide specifics or stop.

G

 

[Funak]

You tend to do this, yet offer no actual, tangible constructive criticism. Provide specifics or stop.

Come on, man, you should not even dignify such posts with a response.

 

[CrazyG]

Don't know if WoT needs that big a nerf as the boosts on era don't really scale well past Renaissance in comparison to those with percentage boosts.

In theory it should have a flaw of weaker late game, but I haven't had a game where I picked it and the game was still competitive past medieval. For example I hit Renaissance on turn 105 in a game last patch, while several Deity AI had not reached medieval. That means tercio vs spearmen. I had a similar lead in culture, so I basically get free reign to pursue any wonder I want. Even if the bonuses stopped completely after medieval, WoT might be too strong.

There are several beliefs that don't scale that well, and WoT easily outperforms those. WoT provides 1,800 yields (excluding golden age points). The gain X yields for spreading beliefs would need to spread an absurd amount of times to match that. I think the percent beliefs are pretty close to the spreader beliefs in power, so WoT is the outlier.

300 of everything that early on puts you way too far ahead. It needs to be balanced if someone gets the bonus at turn 70 (which is very doable for civs with bonus faith). Also, consider synergy, if 300 culture grows my borders a twice and I have tribute, I'm actually getting 360 food/gold. If my capital grows 3 times and I have cooperation, that is another 21 of all yields (which could mean even more border growth or pop growth!)

 

[Gazebo]

In theory it should have a flaw of weaker late game, but I haven't had a game where I picked it and the game was still competitive past medieval. For example I hit Renaissance on turn 105 in a game last patch, while several Deity AI had not reached medieval. That means tercio vs spearmen. I had a similar lead in culture, so I basically get free reign to pursue any wonder I want. Even if the bonuses stopped completely after medieval, WoT might be too strong.

There are several beliefs that don't scale that well, and WoT easily outperforms those. WoT provides 1,800 yields (excluding golden age points). The gain X yields for spreading beliefs would need to spread an absurd amount of times to match that. I think the percent beliefs are pretty close to the spreader beliefs in power, so WoT is the outlier.

300 of everything that early on puts you way too far ahead. It needs to be balanced if someone gets the bonus at turn 70 (which is very doable for civs with bonus faith). Also, consider synergy, if 300 culture grows my borders a twice and I have tribute, I'm actually getting 360 food/gold. If my capital grows 3 times and I have cooperation, that is another 21 of all yields (which could mean even more border growth or pop growth!)

I think 250 (instead of 300) across the board might do it for a nerf for WoT.

Come on, man, you should not even dignify such posts with a response.

Everyone's entitled to criticism - some people just don't know how to do so constructively. I'd rather educate than ignore.

G

 

[CrazyG]

I think 250 (instead of 300) across the board might do it for a nerf for WoT.

Could we try 250 without production?