New Version - July 18th (7/18)

[balinte]

What's the problem with reworking the naval ranged promotion so that it doesn't give CS on defending; like submarines?

As I see it would solve all those problems presented

 

[Gokudo01]

I personally enjoy the current naval mechanics. If the main issue is balance between the two lines, wouldn't simply adjusting CS for ranged ships fix that? Perhaps also reducing speed for later ranged ships - I think dromon is fine, but I see how later era ships make it too easy to have lots of attacks on a single city.

I enjoyed it too, I just think that melee ship aren't quite as useful as they should be. I like how I can pressure land with navy and how I am forced to balance my force between land and navy.

 

[Funak]

Honestly, I think giving ranged ships a penalty versus units and maybe bumping CS of most if not all melee ships by a few percent would be the best solution.

Also still don't think any melee ship should cost strategic resources, why was that added in the first place? Was it because the AI overproduced them?

 

[Gazebo]

City States now have a base reluctance of 175, which makes tribute really difficult. I currently have 6 spearmen and a pathfinder in range, and Zulu's bonus, but I cannot even get regular tribute from a CS. I didn't see any note of this change, it used to be a base of 150

I didn't touch base resistance, at least I don't recall touching it, yet it is at 175, strangely enough. I'll update later.

Honestly, I think giving ranged ships a penalty versus units and maybe bumping CS of most if not all melee ships by a few percent would be the best solution.

Also still don't think any melee ship should cost strategic resources, why was that added in the first place? Was it because the AI overproduced them?

It would rock the boat the least (pun definitely intended).

SR added for AI, yep.

G

 

[Funak]

SR added for AI, yep.

There must be some better way, you can't defend a naval invasion without some kind of boat, with SR requirement on both melee and ranged ships this will be the only sort of invasion where you're completely dependent on SRs to survive.

 

[DarkZero]

There must be some better way, you can't defend a naval invasion without some kind of boat, with SR requirement on both melee and ranged ships this will be the only sort of invasion where you're completely dependent on SRs to survive.

And even whit SR requirements the ai still spam boats like there is no tomorrow, sometimes even in inland seas.

 

[lalalaprout]

One major interest I see in requiring SRs for ships is that without the iron requirement for example I'd never actively look to secure some irons. I never build swordsmen, and for the few longswordsmen I build I'm generally fine with the odd, random iron I find.

I think the coal requirement for ironclad is not in that regard ideal because coal is very much sought after anyway because of all the coal you need in industrial for factories and seaports/trainstations. But if the aim if to restrict the amount of ironclad you can produce, then it's perfect.

Requiring iron for renaissance/industrial era ships seems good to me because it gives me a good reason to want to find and settle iron. Otherwise I'd just ignore that "strategic" resource.

 

[balinte]

What's the problem with reworking the naval ranged promotion so that it doesn't give CS on defending; like submarines?

As I see it would solve all those problems presented

Giving it further thought, instead, giving melee shipss promotion line the "Ironsides" effect (so extra cs on defense), plus giving them the MAA, might be a better solution
Which, balance wise I think should work on the seas (at least with not too big numbers)

One problem still: is that this doesnt address the "you cant defend against navy without a stronger navy" phenomen
So Id suggest, already having the naval balance; removing the naval missfire and less naval dmg promotions from land units

Plus, as always, maybe tweak some numbers

 

[balinte]

But if the aim if to restrict the amount of ironclad you can produce, then it's perfect.

I doubt the too much ironclads is a problem

 

[balinte]

Another problem Ive been wanting to speak about is that, I hadnt been building a lot late game diplomats in even in the previous versions.
But this new freedom tenet that gives 100% coup chance for lvl 2 spies... really?
Especially if I interpret it right, there is no diplo penalty for coups which, if thats really the case, is an obvious problem

 

[Txurce]

Another problem Ive been wanting to speak about is that, I hadnt been building a lot late game diplomats in even in the previous versions.
But this new freedom tenet that gives 100% coup chance for lvl 2 spies... really?
Especially if I observe (I cant think of the proper word here.. something beginning with inter.. i think) it right, there is no diplo penalty for coups which, if thats really the case, is an obvious problem

Interpret?

 

[Gazebo]

Flipping CSs will piss off the former allies. CS competition is the leading cause of denouncements in the world today.

 

[balinte]

Flipping CSs will piss off the former allies. CS competition is the leading cause of denouncements in the world today.

Yeah, I dont play with transparent diplomacy so I might ve been wrong here
Then everyone was lieing to me the whole time? I don't think I ever got the "you are competing for the same city states" NDM after succesfully or unsuccesfully couping someones city state
But rather randomly when I complete City State quests

Also that might be a bug, idk how the code works

 

[CrazyG]

I also had the impression that couping city states didn't upset people all that much. At least not compared to how upset they get over me finding that natural wonder for 31 influence

 

[Gazebo]

I also had the impression that couping city states didn't upset people all that much. At least not compared to how upset they get over me finding that natural wonder for 31 influence

Yeah, there's not a robust method for the AI to track that stuff. I should add one.

G

 

[PapaRockett]

Yeah I was playing as England and my spies were just awesome at performing coups on every single city state (like ~120% success chance). None of the AI even seemed to notice, it was much safer than just passively raising influence. It would make more sense if they did notice

 

[Jarula]

Hey guys can you do a hotfix for setting the pantheon limiter

All the pantheons have chosen and in 43 civ its still not saying no more pantheons can be founded...

 

[Owlbebach]

Yeah, there's not a robust method for the AI to track that stuff. I should add one.

G

Please do not overreact with diplo penalty for stealing city-states i think its fine as is. In fact, i'd rather reduce it. Diplo victory is already the hardest one on big maps due to diplo penalties. Everyone starts to denounce you and then they declare war and then they start to capture your city-states allies on the other side of the globe and you can't do anything with it. This literally makes diplo victory impossible sometimes

 

[Boombar]

What is going on with ideology pressure? Nobody is even exotic to me and somehow i have -30 happiness. I've chosen freedom and some 20-30 turns later Austria picked order. No one else has ideology yet. They have almost no influence on me and somehow i am getting -30 happiness because i picked freedom instead of order. Game before this one, I was the only one to pick ideology and somehow i was getting pressure from autocracy.

 

[Gokudo01]

This bug is in since the 07 15 version i posted a screenshot