New Version - May 10th (5/10)
- Thread starter Gazebo
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Y.O.
Warlord
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Liking the changes to imperialism! I always disliked having to get Military Tradition in order to get Exploitation, due to not liking the policy (never had an issue with gold as a warmonger, so +4 gold to forts and citadels didn't excite me that much). Changing the gold bonus to science and culture for forts and citadels might cause me to build more forts. Will also have to play as a warmonger England now. I normally play as a meddlesome-control-everything-through-world-congress England, but the Imperialism changes should make for fun late game warfare as Elizabeth.
ElliotS
Warmonger
You don't math or logic well, do you?Boothis is bad. That Science drop for Empiricism means in YGAEM Huge empires like the ****ing Zulus are going to hit modern era by BC.
A) You can't pick it until industrial B) It's not as crazy a bonus as you think it is. It's like +5% science per city. C) Cities still have culture costs D) Puppet cities already have 0% science increase, so that should theoretically increase your science faster.
Except people has been picking up Industry and Imperialism much more than that silly Rationalism. With this buff, Rationalism will be the intended to-go branch for science bonuses.
What otherwise they're moving Super fast. All the European Civs have ZERO chance. I know that's like 
but seriously in a YGAEM map Rome can found like 2 cities normally Greece like 1 or 2 France 3 essentially they're all TINY. They never get to expand those Civ 4 traits mean their buffs give them the chance to if they can get on a roll even things out.
otherwise they're moving Super fast. All the European Civs have ZERO chance. I know that's like but seriously in a YGAEM map Rome can found like 2 cities normally Greece like 1 or 2 France 3 essentially they're all TINY. They never get to expand those Civ 4 traits mean their buffs give them the chance to if they can get on a roll even things out.Here is the math for what your tech costs will be. I ran numbers for standard size, cost increase per city is 11%, but its additive, which makes the math weird.
If a technology costs 1000 science for 1 city, for X amount of (non-puppet) cities it costs-
5 cities - 1,440
10 cities - 1990
15 cities - 2,540
20 cities - 3,090
With Empiricism, those numbers change to
5 cities - 1,240 (effectively a 16% boost to your science)
10 cities - 1,540 (29.2%)
15 cities - 1,840 (38%)
20 cities - 2,140 (44.4%)
That's a powerful policy even for a small empire, you need only 5 (non puppet) cities to match what you would get if you boosted a whales monopoly before.
If a technology costs 1000 science for 1 city, for X amount of (non-puppet) cities it costs-
5 cities - 1,440
10 cities - 1990
15 cities - 2,540
20 cities - 3,090
With Empiricism, those numbers change to
5 cities - 1,240 (effectively a 16% boost to your science)
10 cities - 1,540 (29.2%)
15 cities - 1,840 (38%)
20 cities - 2,140 (44.4%)
That's a powerful policy even for a small empire, you need only 5 (non puppet) cities to match what you would get if you boosted a whales monopoly before.
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Imagine on a Giant Earth Map...
That's fudging Crazy. Zulu even without that even lets say with Nubia, Ethiopia, Egypt, Carthage, AND Songhai is gonna have like 9 cities. Early most likely 23 by the time They are around that era. They'll be SHOOTing through ages like CRAZY. Its like with the 3rd or 4th component they're trying to give them an amphitheater replacement.
Maybe its just YGAEMP that gives Super crazy location bonuses maybe I'd have to make a custom form of Civ 4 traits or something to buff the Europeans but with a -5% on a Huge or larger map that's CRAZY OP that means basically no tech cost increase per city.
That's fudging Crazy. Zulu even without that even lets say with Nubia, Ethiopia, Egypt, Carthage, AND Songhai is gonna have like 9 cities. Early most likely 23 by the time They are around that era. They'll be SHOOTing through ages like CRAZY. Its like with the 3rd or 4th component they're trying to give them an amphitheater replacement.
Maybe its just YGAEMP that gives Super crazy location bonuses maybe I'd have to make a custom form of Civ 4 traits or something to buff the Europeans but with a -5% on a Huge or larger map that's CRAZY OP that means basically no tech cost increase per city.
Txurce
Deity
It might be easier if you accepted that the mod isn't balanced for a Giant Earth Map.
It is strong. But so is the monopoly bonus in Imperialism. And Industry's a top-tier branch for gold and production. They all have their perks.
That said, I waffled between 3-5% for the buff. You know me, though, I tend to lean on 'higher' for an opening value to get people to notice.
G
Actually is there a way you could scale a policy with maps size? Or a cool way would be +5% science per city?
~yeah I know the game is isn't really balanced for it. Aside from what I would be talking about basically a Civ 4 Traits for European Civs and China Japan ONLY would probably be the only way
Deadstarre
Expert
preach
Moderator Action: Posts such as this do not add any value to the thread. If you're going to comment on the mod, please do so constructively.
By the way Gazebo your work is AMAZING as always.
Awesome Job. (One of my favorite recent things you did was the adding of a special promotion to colonialism for units... what would be really cool is if you added more to different late game things for example for colonialism perhaps one that gives gold per kills, or extra attacking strength. Essentially something to provide more buffs) it would be super cool if games got to be when a player got imperialism they actually went blitz kind of like the British empire did.
I always play the same way Expand fast (like an ******* neighbor) then build up economy. Never declare war but when a player continues declaring war and I can get the tourism bonus on them take some land.
Actually I have a feeling things are locked but what you really might like if you feel like adding anything I remember community call to power had AWESOME social policy trees Like 3 separate.
It would be SUPER COOL if you wanted to add more like hell Government policies or economy policies. Policies are the coolest stuff in the game I tend to think.
Actually one of the things that might need tweaking is making the ideology change harder to flop. At least in marathon ideology flipping happens so early and so fast its UBER depressing.
Only one set of wonders get built for it
Awesome Job. (One of my favorite recent things you did was the adding of a special promotion to colonialism for units... what would be really cool is if you added more to different late game things for example for colonialism perhaps one that gives gold per kills, or extra attacking strength. Essentially something to provide more buffs) it would be super cool if games got to be when a player got imperialism they actually went blitz kind of like the British empire did.
I always play the same way Expand fast (like an ******* neighbor) then build up economy. Never declare war but when a player continues declaring war and I can get the tourism bonus on them take some land.
Actually I have a feeling things are locked but what you really might like if you feel like adding anything I remember community call to power had AWESOME social policy trees Like 3 separate.
It would be SUPER COOL if you wanted to add more like hell Government policies or economy policies. Policies are the coolest stuff in the game I tend to think.
Actually one of the things that might need tweaking is making the ideology change harder to flop. At least in marathon ideology flipping happens so early and so fast its UBER depressing.
Only one set of wonders get built for it
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Moi Magnus
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2015
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That's not the math you have to do.
You're comparing "20 non-puppet cities without Empiricism" to "20 non-puppet cities with Empiricism", wherease a more reasonnable comparaison would be "10 non-puupet cities and 10 puppet cities without Empiricism" and "20 non-puppet cities with Empiriciscm"
However, even with "the good math", Empiricism is still very powerfull, and OP on big maps
(don't forget that the mod is balanced for standard map size)
Honestly, I just don't see a universe where the giant earth map is balanced at all, VP or no VP.
To get any form of balance from it you would have to change the size so that every European country have space to settle like 7 cities, you would have to make jungle inaccessable until like the enlightenment and you'd have to make all tropical parts of the world trigger disasterous events every few turns because of diseases.
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