New Version - May 20th (5/20)

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ashendashin said:
It did happen to me when I didn't check off all individual types of events too. Maybe really advanced setup has something to do with it.
Click to expand...
Same here, I am playing with RAS and just had a couple of events pop up when everything events-related was off in the setup.

I'll add this as a note to the Mods compatibility thread.
 
vyyt said:
Same here, I am playing with RAS and just had a couple of events pop up when everything events-related was off in the setup.

I'll add this as a note to the Mods compatibility thread.
Click to expand...

If you're feeling debuggy, you can look at your debug database using an SQLite browser to find if the value is 0 or 1.

G
 
Soo, @Gazebo, have you a plan for next release? So far, just an extra bit of production in Tradition, maybe a tweak on unhappiness and a missing change like the explorer's bonus vs barbarians. Nice things, but not game changing. After all the AI changes that happened in the last months (city governor, border expansion, luxuries balance), the roller-coaster of happiness and the extra religion, now it feels that we can at least relax. Maybe I'll be able to finish one game this time :)
 
tu_79 said:
Soo, @Gazebo, have you a plan for next release? So far, just an extra bit of production in Tradition, maybe a tweak on unhappiness and a missing change like the explorer's bonus vs barbarians. Nice things, but not game changing. After all the AI changes that happened in the last months (city governor, border expansion, luxuries balance), the roller-coaster of happiness and the extra religion, now it feels that we can at least relax. Maybe I'll be able to finish one game this time :)
Click to expand...

Don't forget the ranged/mounted ranged/siege revamp. I'm not sure if G plans to introduce the proposed Imperialism nerfs/Artistry buffs.
 
tu_79 said:
Soo, @Gazebo, have you a plan for next release? So far, just an extra bit of production in Tradition, maybe a tweak on unhappiness and a missing change like the explorer's bonus vs barbarians. Nice things, but not game changing. After all the AI changes that happened in the last months (city governor, border expansion, luxuries balance), the roller-coaster of happiness and the extra religion, now it feels that we can at least relax. Maybe I'll be able to finish one game this time :)
Click to expand...

I do. I'm currently running numbers and sessions for some tweaks to the happiness tech median. Current working changelog:

Code: 
Bugfixes
    Fix for interception issues
    Performance improvements
    Fix for tile yield snafu in certain situations
    Corrected ranged damage value for cities (vanilla bug)
    Many smaller fixes and adjustments
Balance
    War Weariness:
        Liberating a city reduces your current war weariness by 25% immediately
        
    Happiness:
        Now uses a tech median value, instead of player tech value
            What this means: I tinkered with this long ago, but I'm coming back to it as an experiment. In essence, there is no longer a gradual increase from tech - instead, there's a penalty/bonus from being above/below the median, respectively. So, if you are ahead of the global tech median, your people expect more from you. If you are below the tech median, your people expect less. Should help balance out some concerns people have had with win-more runaways and downward spirals.
        Pop scaler increased, now scales off of # of cities as well
            Since the flat tech scaler has been reduced, this was increased slightly to keep large city unhappiness at a reasonable level
    Units:
        Explorer - now gets a combat bonus instead of penalty (meant to update this when I updated the Bandierantes, but it slipped through the cracks)
    Unit Combat:
    CS/RCS on most ranged land units, and some melee units, adjusted:
        RCS

        Slinger 6-> 7
        Archer 6 -> 7
        Chariot Archer 8 -> 7

        Composite Bowman 11 -> 13
        Atlatl 11 -> 13
        Bab Bowman 13 -> 15

        Chukonu 19 -> 20
        Crossbow 20 -> 21
        M. Bowman 22 -> 21
        Longbow 22 -> 23

        Minuteman 30 -> 33
        Musketman 30 -> 32

        Gatling 45 -> 48

        Machine Gun 60 -> 63

        Light Tank 65 -> 62

        Bazooka 65 -> 68

        CS

        Warrior 6 -> 7
        B. Warrior 6 -> 7
        Jag 8 -> 10

        Slinger 4-> 5
        Archer 5 -> 6
        War Chariot 8 -> 9

        Catapult 4 -> 6
        Ballista 4 -> 6
        Composite Bowman 8 -> 11
        Atlatl 8 -> 11
        M. Archer 10 -> 11
        Hunnic Archer 12 -> 13
        Bab Bowman 10 -> 12

        Trebuchet 8 -> 11
        Hwacha 8 -> 11
        Chukonu 13 -> 15
        Crossbow 13 -> 15
        M. Bowman 18 -> 15
        Longbow 14 -> 16
        Camel Archer 18 -> 17

        Cannon 14 -> 15
        Hussar 28 -> 27
        Cuirassier 25 -> 23
        Minuteman 20 -> 23
        Musketman 17 -> 20
        Janissary 20 -> 23

        Gatling 25 -> 30
        Berber 32 -> 33
        Field Gun 20 -> 25

        Machine Gun 35 -> 40
        Artillery 25 -> 30

        Bazooka 40 -> 45

        Rocket Artillery 48 -> 56
        Helicopter 55 -> 56
        
    Buildings:
        Fixed missing museum on Louvre
        Floating Gardens (Aztec) - gains +2 culture
        Walls of Babylon - gains +1 culture
    
    Policies:
        Justice - Added +1 production in all cities (Tradition)
        Cultural Exchange - now buffs Amphitheater and Opera House instead of Guilds (4/4, was 3/3) (Artistry)
        Colonialism - dropped barracks/armory/military academy/fort/citadel science to 3 (was 5) (Imperium)
 
Gazebo said:
Now uses a tech median value, instead of player tech value
Click to expand...

Oh, great! Now I have to fix my happiness guide. Again. :D

Gazebo said:
Cultural Exchange - now buffs Amphitheater and Opera House instead of Guilds
Click to expand...

This is actually great. Artistry working better for wide is a good move.
 
>War Weariness:
Liberating a city reduces your current war weariness by 25% immediately
Huh? I don't remember this one being discussed. Was this just to piss off NJ for calling it OP? :p

>Colonialism - dropped barracks/armory/military academy/fort/citadel science to 3 (was 5) (Imperium)
Can we please get +1 :c5science: on forts on 2-3 techs? I really like seeing forts worth building with that policy.
 
ElliotS said:
>War Weariness:
Liberating a city reduces your current war weariness by 25% immediately
Huh? I don't remember this one being discussed. Was this just to piss off NJ for calling it OP? :p

>Colonialism - dropped barracks/armory/military academy/fort/citadel science to 3 (was 5) (Imperium)
Can we please get +1 :c5science: on forts on 2-3 techs? I really like seeing forts worth building with that policy.
Click to expand...

I'd never do such a thing. :)

In all seriousness, it's just a light incentive for the AI to liberate (beyond their views of the civ they're liberating for). The AI likes its long wars, sometimes.

Re: fort, I'll just give forts half of what citadels get.

G
 
Gazebo said:
I do. I'm currently running numbers and sessions for some tweaks to the happiness tech median. Current working changelog:

Code: 
Bugfixes
    Fix for interception issues
    Performance improvements
    Fix for tile yield snafu in certain situations
    Corrected ranged damage value for cities (vanilla bug)
    Many smaller fixes and adjustments
Balance
    War Weariness:
        Liberating a city reduces your current war weariness by 25% immediately
  
    Happiness:
        Now uses a tech median value, instead of player tech value
            What this means: I tinkered with this long ago, but I'm coming back to it as an experiment. In essence, there is no longer a gradual increase from tech - instead, there's a penalty/bonus from being above/below the median, respectively. So, if you are ahead of the global tech median, your people expect more from you. If you are below the tech median, your people expect less. Should help balance out some concerns people have had with win-more runaways and downward spirals.
        Pop scaler increased, now scales off of # of cities as well
            Since the flat tech scaler has been reduced, this was increased slightly to keep large city unhappiness at a reasonable level
    Units:
        Explorer - now gets a combat bonus instead of penalty (meant to update this when I updated the Bandierantes, but it slipped through the cracks)
    Unit Combat:
    CS/RCS on most ranged land units, and some melee units, adjusted:
        RCS

        Slinger 6-> 7
        Archer 6 -> 7
        Chariot Archer 8 -> 7

        Composite Bowman 11 -> 13
        Atlatl 11 -> 13
        Bab Bowman 13 -> 15

        Chukonu 19 -> 20
        Crossbow 20 -> 21
        M. Bowman 22 -> 21
        Longbow 22 -> 23

        Minuteman 30 -> 33
        Musketman 30 -> 32

        Gatling 45 -> 48

        Machine Gun 60 -> 63

        Light Tank 65 -> 62

        Bazooka 65 -> 68

        CS

        Warrior 6 -> 7
        B. Warrior 6 -> 7
        Jag 8 -> 10

        Slinger 4-> 5
        Archer 5 -> 6
        War Chariot 8 -> 9

        Catapult 4 -> 6
        Ballista 4 -> 6
        Composite Bowman 8 -> 11
        Atlatl 8 -> 11
        M. Archer 10 -> 11
        Hunnic Archer 12 -> 13
        Bab Bowman 10 -> 12

        Trebuchet 8 -> 11
        Hwacha 8 -> 11
        Chukonu 13 -> 15
        Crossbow 13 -> 15
        M. Bowman 18 -> 15
        Longbow 14 -> 16
        Camel Archer 18 -> 17

        Cannon 14 -> 15
        Hussar 28 -> 27
        Cuirassier 25 -> 23
        Minuteman 20 -> 23
        Musketman 17 -> 20
        Janissary 20 -> 23

        Gatling 25 -> 30
        Berber 32 -> 33
        Field Gun 20 -> 25

        Machine Gun 35 -> 40
        Artillery 25 -> 30

        Bazooka 40 -> 45

        Rocket Artillery 48 -> 56
        Helicopter 55 -> 56
  
    Buildings:
        Fixed missing museum on Louvre
        Floating Gardens (Aztec) - gains +2 culture
        Walls of Babylon - gains +1 culture
 
    Policies:
        Justice - Added +1 production in all cities (Tradition)
        Cultural Exchange - now buffs Amphitheater and Opera House instead of Guilds (4/4, was 3/3) (Artistry)
        Colonialism - dropped barracks/armory/military academy/fort/citadel science to 3 (was 5) (Imperium)
Click to expand...

Jaguar at 10 strength will be a sight to behold.

+2 Culture Floating Garden should carry it through. The only problem is... Culture. Almost every civ has it on their uniques now, and both Aztecs and Babylon will join the ranks with this patch. Wouldn't it be better to give FG it's old, better production scaler (that's worse than gaining +2C) and improve the kill yields to keep Aztecs less homogenous? Same with Babylon, maybe remove the maintenance on the Wall and add +1/2 Gold instead to synergise with the UA's investitions? It's still nitpicks and the balance will be improved either way, so it's oaky.

Any guess when it'll be available? I'd like to try the military changes out.
 
Enrico Swagolo said:
Jaguar at 10 strength will be a sight to behold.

+2 Culture Floating Garden should carry it through. The only problem is... Culture. Almost every civ has it on their uniques now, and both Aztecs and Babylon will join the ranks with this patch. Wouldn't it be better to give FG it's old, better production scaler (that's worse than gaining +2C) and improve the kill yields to keep Aztecs less homogenous? Same with Babylon, maybe remove the maintenance on the Wall and add +1/2 Gold instead to synergise with the UA's investitions? It's still nitpicks and the balance will be improved either way, so it's oaky.

Any guess when it'll be available? I'd like to try the military changes out.
Click to expand...

I agree with the Floating Gardens change.

As for Babylon, I think it would be nice if it costed drastically less hammers (like 65 hammers) that way you can opt to build them instead of councils and it would be cool to build it so early/easy (synergizes nicely with the Babylon investment too). It would make Tradition Babylon nice since Tradition Babylon shouldn't have a problem building it the way it kind of does now.

I don't want culture added on everything (like I wonder why it's on the Ikanda/Longhouse/Paper Maker/Tabya etc.), the bonus feels quite stale by this point.
 
chicorbeef said:
I agree with the Floating Gardens change.

As for Babylon, I think it would be nice if it costed drastically less hammers (like 65 hammers) that way you can opt to build them instead of councils and it would be cool to build it so early/easy (synergizes nicely with the Babylon investment too). It would make Tradition Babylon nice since Tradition Babylon shouldn't have a problem building it the way it kind of does now.

I don't want culture added on everything (like I wonder why it's on the Ikanda/Longhouse/Paper Maker/Tabya etc.), the bonus feels quite stale by this point.
Click to expand...

Baby Wall costing (slightly?) less than regular one would be a far smaller degree of homogenisation than adding Gold as I proposed, especially if it simply lost maintenance. That's a pretty good idea.
 
Enrico Swagolo said:
Baby Wall costing (slightly?) less than regular one would be a far smaller degree of homogenisation than adding Gold as I proposed, especially if it simply lost maintenance. That's a pretty good idea.
Click to expand...
That synergy with extra gold is no silly thing, either. I'm focusing too much on gold just for keeping investments, but then a time comes when you need to expend gold for upgrades.
 
Cultural Exchange - now buffs Amphitheater and Opera House instead of Guilds (4/4, was 3/3) (Artistry)

I'm a big fan of this change. Its a buff in general (even Tall cities tend to have 5-6 cities, so you get more hits of the bonus, plus a stronger bonus), and it gives Wide a little something. I'm a fan.


Corrected ranged damage value for cities (vanilla bug)

So will city damage be stronger or weaker after the fix?
 
Stalker0 said:
Cultural Exchange - now buffs Amphitheater and Opera House instead of Guilds (4/4, was 3/3) (Artistry)

I'm a big fan of this change. Its a buff in general (even Tall cities tend to have 5-6 cities, so you get more hits of the bonus, plus a stronger bonus), and it gives Wide a little something. I'm a fan.


Corrected ranged damage value for cities (vanilla bug)

So will city damage be stronger or weaker after the fix?
Click to expand...

Same. It will just display correctly.

G
 
Gazebo said:
Units:
Explorer - now gets a combat bonus instead of penalty (meant to update this when I updated the Bandierantes, but it slipped through the cracks)
Click to expand...

Somehow, I thought the base Explorer was only losing the penalty vs barbarians, not that it would also have Brute Force, in the balance thread.

Bandeirantes's Brute Force promotion was originally meant to be one of its boosts over the Explorer, back from when we were discussing its concept. Can the Bandeirantes get a bigger bonus vs barbarians? Mostly to preserve the original boost it was meant to have over the base unit.
 
Legen said:
Somehow, I thought the base Explorer was only losing the penalty vs barbarians, not that it would also have Brute Force, in the balance thread.

Bandeirantes's Brute Force promotion was originally meant to be one of its boosts over the Explorer, back from when we were discussing its concept. Can the Bandeirantes get a bigger bonus vs barbarians? Mostly to preserve the original boost it was meant to have over the base unit.
Click to expand...

The Bandeirantes will be fine with this change.

G
 
Tech median value will surely result in more crazy jumps in happiness.

AI trade techs on the same turn whenever one gets it means a big adjustment in happiness.

When an AI is elimated means again a big happiness adjustment.

I can see this making fluctuating happiness worse.
 
Randomsheep said:
Tech median value will surely result in more crazy jumps in happiness.

AI trade techs on the same turn whenever one gets it means a big adjustment in happiness.

When an AI is elimated means again a big happiness adjustment.

I can see this making fluctuating happiness worse.
Click to expand...

I don't think those concerns will be very valid in practice.

AI often hoard their newest techs and refuse to trade them outside of EXTREMELY one sided deals.

AI being eliminated 'might' make a big swing but only if the AI eliminated is terribly far behind or ahead in tech and there are many catch-up mechanics when behind on tech.
 
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