Non Americans have EVERY right to complain

[RedWolf]

There has been one common thought coming from American posters whenever a non American tries to negatively discuss America's potential response to this tragic terrorist incident.

They basically say "If you aren't an American shut the hell up because you have no right to judge us".

Well I say NO. We have EVERY right to pass moral judgements on your actions. We ALL have to live in this world and what America does affects us all. Like it or not.

Even as we speak, MY Prime Minister is pledging Canada's support to the US... "We will stand together he says" (I'l like to know who this WE **** is since HE won't be the one fighting the Mujaheedin in the hills of afghanistan. It will be young men MY age)

NATO is declaring the attack an act of war and saying that "an attack on one NATO nation is an attack on us all".

Thats great... but when YOUR actions have the potential to drag ME into a World War... I damn well do SO have every right to tell you what i think of them.

And when your actions involve snuffing out the lives of the innocent (ie: by turning afghanistan into a parking lot) then I DEFINITELY have every right to condemn you.

You may have the biggest military in the world... and my my condemnation and concern will mean very little in the long run I'm afraid. HOWEVER... I have the right to SAY whatever I please thank you. REGARDLESS of how much you are hurting.

Anyone that doesn't like it can go to hell.

 

[Magnus]

Please don't stereotype, RedWolf, its not pretty.

 

[G-Man]

No American ever told me to shut up because I'm not from the US.<br />And about this "We". As much as I know Canada is a democracy, and in a democracy sometimes people do things they don't wanna do because of the public opinion. If your PM is supporting the US then I guess this decision has a majority in Canada.<br />And I find it very hard to believe that Afghanistan is strong enough to make this war a world war.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Well, certainly, Redwolf you can discuss it. particularly since Wednesdays when the became an attack on all the nations of NATO, and your nation is now in a state of hostilities. Perhspas you could even discuss the actions that Canadians are proposing. It might be tactful to stay out of the face of the more emotional and bereaved poster, as a matter of simple humanity and compaasion. <br />Perhaps you should stick to company of the like of me, who as a cold blooded calculating, but entirely lawful, killer when it comes to war policy, is less likely to do you cyber violence in a fit of rage. You might find my company a bit alien and disconcerting , however. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

 

[floppa21]

I agree Gman, Canada ain't gonna get involved beyond talk. I'd have more respect for them if they did though. Mind you, I like Canada because they gave us IMO the GREATEST sport ever in hockey. But relax Rewolf. I think people are sayin shut up to these pricks who are jumpin into EVERY SINGLE THREAD sayin "Well the US deserves it. They asked for it." No tact, no taste, no compassion.

 

[RedWolf]

Magnus:

Who am I stereotyping? I have seen American posters in a couple instances (4-5 times) tell us (non American posters) to shut up and mind our own business.

Ok.. I'll admit when I was wrong. This isn't common among ALL American posters here.. but SOME. They know who they are - and THAT'S who this thread was meant for. I apologize to the other Americans that don't share their opinions.<br />I worded the opening sentence of my post a little harshly.

G-man:

The reason they haven't told YOU to shut up is because you haven't critisized their opinions yet. Try it and see what happens. (there are a few of us that can attest to this)

As for Canada being a democracy... We are only a democracy every 4 years. The rest of the time we are forced to follow whatever goon happens to be in office at the time (who usually convinced the masses to vote for him by promising tax cuts that never materialized)

Besides... the majority of my people have lost their minds right along with the Americans. THAT is not my problem... I personally should not be dragged into a war (any war) simply because everyone else has gone INSANE.

 

[Rangers, Lead the Way]

Well, RedWoof, if you buy into the parking lot bit as a likely indicator of American policy, that speaks volumes for how much you know.

Is there anything in that post that doesn't really amount to: "I'm afwaid I might get a hangnail, so don't inconvenience me?"

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Future acts of your government, with gegard to supporting hostilities aganist the terrorist, are now partialy constrained by the NATO treaty. Even your parliment and prime minister are not going to get a say in SOME matters, short of violating the treaty. Some desision making functions were tranfer to the NATO council years ago. <img src="graemlins/hammer.gif" border="0" alt="[Hammer]" />

 

[CornMaster]

I agree Redwolf!!

If you read the 3rd post in the "Reality" thread, you can see how this has effected just ONE town in Canada!!! And drastically!!!

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by Rangers, Lead the Way:<br /><strong>Well, RedWoof, if you buy into the parking lot bit as a likely indicator of American policy, that speaks volumes for how much you know.

Is there anything in that post that doesn't really amount to: "I'm afwaid I might get a hangnail, so don't inconvenience me?"</strong><hr></blockquote>

All I have to base my opinion on is what I have seen in my short lifetime. And that is American cruise missles and airstrikes raining down on population centers (aimed at military targets of course but in the end civilians end up suffering the most).

Add to that the insane people (Canadians AND Americans alike) calling for massive carpet bombing of "all who harbour them" and I think I have every reason to be concerned.

As for the hangnail bit... You sound like a professional soldier and I respect that... However I am NOT. I am not willing to lay down my life in revenge for a terrorist attack on the US. I'm sorry. If that makes me a whiner than so be it. I can deal.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Being an old Roman, I do not approve of using new fangled weapons of mass destruction.

'Nuke baaaad! Short sword goood! Stick shor sword in enemies belly and twist. Out gush blood and guts and little bits of liver. GOOOOOOD! Very goood!

Does that make you feel better Redwolf. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[LOL]" />

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

to redwolf:

There has been one common thought coming from American posters whenever a non American tries to negatively discuss America's potential response to this tragic terrorist incident.<br />They basically say "If you aren't an American shut the hell up because you have no right to judge us".<br /><hr></blockquote>

We'll redwolf ,most of us don't have respect if anybody sais that anyway.You don't have to complain ,just ignore it.You are on youre computer ,you have control over what YOU post.Nobody can deny youre posting right.

Well I say NO. We have EVERY right to pass moral judgements on your actions. We ALL have to live in this world and what America does affects us all. Like it or not.<br /><hr></blockquote>

We'll i kinda like agree that the U.S doesn't listen that much if it come's to go to war toghether with his allies.MAYBE it would be better if they would listen more.But then again, 85% of nato forces are american forces.That way ,in overall ,you could say that Europe has only 15% of the dicision making (i know,stupid figure)<br />That would be Democraticly right.

But Europeans are generaly more coutius if it come's to war.I beliefe that it may be better for the U.S if they would think more about the approach on certain conflicts in a coutius way. (voorzichtig dus!)

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: TheDuckOfFlanders ]</p>

 

[Ashoka]

Redwolf -

I am often in agreement with you -I thought it was because, in my experience, Canadians are generally more level-headed than Americans. Now, if many of the people around you are also supporting an agressive response, is it because it is perhaps NOT such a ridiculous course of action? (Not the most comforting, but maybe, unfortunately, the most logical at this point.)

As for American's telling others they have no right to an opinion - - what I seem to have seen more often is non-Americans telling Americans how we should *feel* and *react* to what has happened - and no-one has the right to tell someone how to grieve or respond in such a unprecedented case.

More disturbing is the number of European posters who are *****ing about NATO 'forcing' them into conflict over this - that REALLY burns me. I guess NATO was good enough when it was the US defending some Liliputian European nation from the big, bad Soviets, but when the US is in need of the support, some of our posters seem to be questioning the wisdom of a defense agreement. Disgusting.

In Peace - <br />Ashoka

 

[Shaolin]

You know what? Terrorism is a WORLD problem. It's everyones problem. Yes, Canada too. So can we please stop the bickering and talk about something useful about how we can unite and take out these cowards that did this. This destruction could just as easily happened in Toronto, Ottawa, Quebec or Vancouver.

 

[Ashoka]

This destruction could just as easily happened in Toronto, Ottawa, Quebec or Vancouver. <hr></blockquote>

While physically possible, it would NEVER happen in any of those places.

As a point I have tired to explain to RedWolf, the US is a big target by our very naure - even if we didn't have inept and selfish foreign policy. Canada and US share a lot of foreign policy, but what good would it do for a terrorist to run an Air Canada jet into the CN Tower in Toronto? No mid-east leader is calling Canda the 'Great Satan'! Canda is the "Great White North," that's all. Not that Canada is of no consequence - but the US is the Big Dog, and the target of anyone with an axe to grind. Canada, fortunately this week, does not merit this distinction.

And I would move to Toronto in a heartbeat! My favorite city in the world!

Ashoka

 

[gjts00]

People who ***** about doing their part to maintain liberty when it comes to blows make me SICK!!! Hey Red Wolf, do you love freedom? Do you like living in a 1st world country? Do you like the fact that you have a roof over your head & something to eat every day? Do you remember & appreciate the sacrifices made by our grandfathers' generation to maintain those things that we hold dear? If you answered yes to any of those questions, you need to sack up & start acting like a man. If you answered no to those questions, you need to wrap a towel around your head, get off the fence & go join up with your buddy Bin Laden (whom you seem to be so fond of defending). As others have said terrorism is everyone's problem. Don't be a fair weather patriot. Weather you like it or not, the enemy is inside the gates. The time for half measures & talk has passed. If you're scared, just say you're scared. God knows the rest of us are.

BTW, which Batt did/do you serve in RLTW?

 

[VoodooAce]

Great. If you disagree with me, go wrap a towel around your head and join your buddy bin laden? Oh, please!

Dude, you have much more in common with bin laden than does redwolf if these posts are any idication. People like you in Islam are the ones encouraging the violence. YOU make me sick, and if you're an American, I'm embarrassed for us.

 

[Rangers, Lead the Way]

Originally posted by RedWolf:<br />As for the hangnail bit... You sound like a professional soldier and I respect that... However I am NOT. I am not willing to lay down my life in revenge for a terrorist attack on the US. I'm sorry. If that makes me a whiner than so be it. I can deal.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Who the **** is willing to lay down their life in revenge for anything? Keep 'em the hell away from me, if you find any. That's the problem with the stereotype of us knuckledraggers.

What I am willing to lay down my life for, is the ability of you, your children, my children, and people everywhere who want to live safe to travel, to go to work, safe from fear of mass murder for some twisted ideology.

I am willing to lay down my life, for my fellow soldiers. In World War 2, a whole generation of young men like you, and a few old farts like me, realized that there was a greater danger to us all from inaction, than any danger to each of us from action. They said we were soft, decadent, weak, unwilling to do what it took. They were wrong, and young men, and some women, from many nations lost their lives, but in the process, destroyed two of the most agressive, murderous regimes in human history.

The enemy we face now is much less, and the means and equipment available to us is much greater. Already, regimes generally hostile to the US and the west, including Cuba, Libya, Syria, and Iran, have repudiated this attack, and several of bin Laden and al Qaeda's past supporters are trying to backpedal away from this as fast as they can.

Taleban, despite their tough talk, is shitting their pants. The Northern Alliance front isn't very far from Kabul.

Pakistan is showing signs of rolling over and wagging their tail, to avoid the repercussions. They have been al Qaeda's biggest recruiting pool over the years, and their major conduit to the outside.

This, like most other wars, is a test of wills. The more nations stand together against this monstrosity, and the more unity within those nations, the less chance there is of your worst fears, because no other nation will stand against us to give sanctuary to these butchers.

They are not ready to take on the world, and their only hope is fear, indecision, vacillation, and weakness from the rest of us.

Personally, I think cruise missiles are a crock of **** as a means of response. They have limited tactical applications in support of general military ops, but they are a gnatdîck response to anything.

It takes troops on the ground. That does NOT entail massive casualties, if you bring adequate resources, well trained, aggressive professionals, and a clear demonstration of will and firepower. Casualties were light on the allied side in the gulf war, and less than the press speculated on the Iraqi side, because we rapidly broke both the enemy's will and means of resistance.

We don't have a shooting war, yet. We have a war of wills. The more of us that stand solidly together, the less our enemies will have the will to try and stand against us.

 

[gjts00]

Originally posted by VoodooAce:<br /><strong>Great. If you disagree with me, go wrap a towel around your head and join your buddy bin laden? Oh, please!

Dude, you have much more in common with bin laden than does redwolf if these posts are any idication. People like you in Islam are the ones encouraging the violence. YOU make me sick, and if you're an American, I'm embarrassed for us.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Another bleeding heart. Can you point the portion of my post where I implied the "if you disagree with me..." angle, Acey??? You seem to be one who would have the world turn the other cheek & let terrorism run rampant, if these posts are any indication.

<br />I see a new generation of draft dodgers on the horizon.

 

[Rangers, Lead the Way]

Originally posted by gjts00:<br />BTW, which Batt did/do you serve in RLTW?<hr></blockquote>

After jump and Ranger school in early '83, I went on to Pathfinder school, ended up as a Pathfinder, 1st Brigade/504 Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82nd Airborne Div.

I served through the gulf war, and served in Grenada, Panama, and the gulf war.