None Shall Pass 2 [Game Thread - Concluded]

[Tanar Aerdoth]

There is no proof the Winston can find Morgoth faction. He could even be Morgoth faction himself!!! or he may not even have that ability (as opposed to another of his factions teamamate)

There's no proof, but he told his result to BSmith before he became a suspect. That's why I trust him.

Ask yourself; Why does his faction need to scan alignment?

Because supposedly, he has an objective to get rid of Morgothians.

Yeah I had a think about it and sprig basically said what I was going to. I also talked to winston and.he had.the same reticence as he did when he was scum in immortals. I even told him I was scanned clean but he refused to offer anything.

This however, might convince me to change my vote. I would like to hear more details of your role Winston.

 

[Sprig]

There's no proof, but he told his result to BSmith before he became a suspect. That's why I trust him.

And? This is proof of nothing. Even Winston admitted that CD had a vc that did not mirror his. of course Winston would tell someone because it furthers his own goals. That doesn't mean he is worthy of trust.

Because supposedly, he has an objective to get rid of Morgothians.

I've been looking for a person who can explain the function of alignment. Would you care to explain how alignment will help hunt morgoth ?

 

[Tanar Aerdoth]

I was about to ask you what alignment has to do with this, but then I realized I misread Winston's claim. Now, I see that the results he claims are not definite. Winston, I would like more details of your role before I follow you in lynching Count Dingdong.

 

[Legato Endless]

Unvote; vote: Winston

Agreed with Sprig.

Count gave an exceptionally specific role claim. Winston gave us the assurance he isn't Morgoth. Also he can detect alignment, which doesn't look particularly useful for faction hunting on its own, which he admits. Denethor was town, there's no way his alignment was good. Apparently he wants the town to further his win condition which vaguely but conveniently perfectly aligns with ours.

 

[Winston Hughes]

A few points:

1) Dingdong is lying about his alignment: I scanned him as evil, not neutral-evil. I'm guessing this is because he doesn't realise that there really are pro-town evils. By contrast, I know that there are, because I am one myself.

2) Visorslash says above that he's scanned clean, but Zack explicitly said that there's no such scan. What Visor said to me in private was that he's been scanned and found not to have a cover role. He also claimed to be Bail Organa and an alignment scanner.

I'm pretty dubious about the existence of the cover role scan. I don't have a cover role - something which would have made my Nintendo-hard VC a jot easier - and I'd be surprised to see any neutral or pro-town roles with one. It just doesn't ring true to me, and I suspect he was testing out the lie on me to see what kind of reaction it got.

More importantly, though, I'm also not buying Visor telling me all this if he actually thinks I'm a possible scum. Right now, I'm thinking he looks like he might be part of the Sith (if there is such a faction - they're an essential part of the SW universe, so I'd assume they're here somewhere) or Morgoth.

3) I'm also not buying Sprig's move against me, or his motives more generally. He's another good candidate for Sith or Morgoth.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Ah, what the hell. I'm doomed either way...

I'm Tarkin, and I have a Death Star, which I can use on odd-numbered days, starting tomorrow. My PG is to use it to daykill someone who can't be killed at night.

See what I mean now? I've been absolutely screwed by this set-up. No cover role, evil alignment, a true role that looks guilty as hell, and a kill ability I can only use twice in the first six days of the game. I assume Zack thought that being able to win with the town was enough compensation, but clearly it wasn't.

 

[Newyn]

So basically, Count could be scum, Visor could be scum, Sprig could be scum.
Seems like typical tossing dirt at everyone that questions your credibility.

You still refuse to so much as give the name of your role or your VC. If you got nothing to hide, what harm is there in telling us? The fact that you choose not to tell us is good enough proof for me that you're sprouting BS here.

edit: ninja'd...

 

[Newyn]

Yep, everything in your role screams scum, even the personal goal and all we have is your word that you can actually win with town.

 

[choxorn]

Ah, what the hell. I'm doomed either way...

I'm Tarkin, and I have a Death Star, which I can use on odd-numbered days, starting tomorrow. My PG is to use it to daykill someone who can't be killed at night.

See what I mean now? I've been absolutely screwed by this set-up. No cover role, evil alignment, a true role that looks guilty as hell, and a kill ability I can only use twice in the first six days of the game. I assume Zack thought that being able to win with the town was enough compensation, but clearly it wasn't.

You're not telling us something. There's no way in hell you're alone with a role like that, and I also don't believe that you have both a daykill and the scanning ability you say you have. No, I think you have at least one teammate, and they're the one that actually has the scan you claim to have.

Your claimed VC sounds like it would only be incompatible with Dingdong's if he was a Morgoth. While I honestly think both of you are totally full of it, the more I think about it, the more it seems like you're more full of it than he is. Your claims and his are both ballsy for an anti-townie, but yours are ballsy in a "this is too ridiculous to be real" way and his are ballsy in a "has some possibility of being true, and it's a really weird claim for a mafia to make" way.

So, you know what? Unvote, Vote: Winston Hughes

 

[Sprig]

Its a bit ironic, when Snerk asked me to vote for you, I told him I wouldn't as I had a few good reasons not too. It wasn't that claim against you that caused me to vote for you but rather, I didn't like the arguments/assumptions for CD over you.

Now, well yes. Your role puts you in a difficult situation. Where does alignment scan come into it?

 

[Count Dingdong]

1) Dingdong is lying about his alignment: I scanned him as evil, not neutral-evil. I'm guessing this is because he doesn't realise that there really are pro-town evils. By contrast, I know that there are, because I am one myself.

If I didn't think there were pro-town evils, why in the world would I claim evil, of any sort? Being neutral as opposed to law/chaos has absolutely no change in that regard. So either your alignment scry doesn't care about law/chaos, or something else is wrong about your scry. All I can tell you is that my role PM says that I'm neutral-evil.

 

[Swammerdami]

Both could be truthful; we might be witnessing a 3rd-party vs 3rd-party fight.

I think the priority is to Kill the Morgoth to see whether his name appears in Red or Purple when he flips.

Unvote; Vote Count Dingdong

 

[Swammerdami]

... Visor ... claimed to be Bail Organa and an alignment scanner

Bail Organa is the stepfather of the sweet Princess Leia, right? Is it fair to assume "good guys" in Star Wars are (certainly? probably?) good guys in this game?

 

[spaceman98]

A few points:

1) Dingdong is lying about his alignment: I scanned him as evil, not neutral-evil. I'm guessing this is because he doesn't realise that there really are pro-town evils. By contrast, I know that there are, because I am one myself.

2) Visorslash says above that he's scanned clean, but Zack explicitly said that there's no such scan. What Visor said to me in private was that he's been scanned and found not to have a cover role. He also claimed to be Bail Organa and an alignment scanner.

I'm pretty dubious about the existence of the cover role scan. I don't have a cover role - something which would have made my Nintendo-hard VC a jot easier - and I'd be surprised to see any neutral or pro-town roles with one. It just doesn't ring true to me, and I suspect he was testing out the lie on me to see what kind of reaction it got.

More importantly, though, I'm also not buying Visor telling me all this if he actually thinks I'm a possible scum. Right now, I'm thinking he looks like he might be part of the Sith (if there is such a faction - they're an essential part of the SW universe, so I'd assume they're here somewhere) or Morgoth.

3) I'm also not buying Sprig's move against me, or his motives more generally. He's another good candidate for Sith or Morgoth.

Ah, what the hell. I'm doomed either way...

I'm Tarkin, and I have a Death Star, which I can use on odd-numbered days, starting tomorrow. My PG is to use it to daykill someone who can't be killed at night.

See what I mean now? I've been absolutely screwed by this set-up. No cover role, evil alignment, a true role that looks guilty as hell, and a kill ability I can only use twice in the first six days of the game. I assume Zack thought that being able to win with the town was enough compensation, but clearly it wasn't.

So.... where does the alignment scan come into all of this? unvote: vote: Winston

If I didn't think there were pro-town evils, why in the world would I claim evil, of any sort? Being neutral as opposed to law/chaos has absolutely no change in that regard. So either your alignment scry doesn't care about law/chaos, or something else is wrong about your scry. All I can tell you is that my role PM says that I'm neutral-evil.

Alignment: Good, Neutral-Good, Neutral, Neutral-Evil, or Evil

Lawful and Chaotic don't exist in this game. Either you didn't read the rules, or you are lying and deliberately trying to mislead us.


Both of you are extremely scummy (it is very likely that both of you ARE scum from different anti-town factions), both of you deserve to hang.


Winston's sole redeeming quality is that if he has a daykill tomorrow as he claims, we could try to use it as an extra lynch for the town and then lynch Winston afterwards. Historically, such tactics have had mixed results (worked with Ganondorf in NSP 1, failed with the Ninja in The Mafia).

The case against Dingdong is less clear than the one against Winston, but as I understand from his role description, he becomes more powerful after being killed (since he becomes a confirmed townie capable of fully contributing). His roleclaim is also extremely odd, and his in-thread behavior doesn't please me.

 

[spaceman98]

Bail Organa is the stepfather of the sweet Princess Leia, right? Is it fair to assume "good guys" in Star Wars are (certainly? probably?) good guys in this game?

Bail Organa could just be a cover role.

 

[spaceman98]

Bail Organa is the stepfather of the sweet Princess Leia, right? Is it fair to assume "good guys" in Star Wars are (certainly? probably?) good guys in this game?

Also, this is Zack mafia. The only thing we can assume is what is written in the rules. Assuming anything else is extremely dangerous. Heck, even "Tarkin is anti-town" is a dangerous assumption in a setup like this., though the unexplained ability scan tilts me towards making it.

 

[spaceman98]

*unexplained alignment scan sorry. bah I need sleep

 

[Visorslash]

Why does everyone think my role is a cover Role? It's not a good cover role if people think it is
Han solo is a good cover role

 

[Count Dingdong]

Lawful and Chaotic don't exist in this game. Either you didn't read the rules, or you are lying and deliberately trying to mislead us.

*facepalm* I read the rules when I signed up, but when I looked back at my role PM, neutral-evil rang D&D-like to me. I... hadn't realized that's what it meant. >.<

Alright then, I concede that I understand Winston's confusion, but I'm just as confused if his scry is as he claimed. I'm neutral-evil and don't see why he wouldn't get the neutral part in his scry.

...The other thing that's been weird to me is that I don't get how evil scry would then lead to Morgoth alignment, as he and FOS:Swammerdami are both claiming. The only way I could see that is if they believe that evil can't be Town and then further know that it couldn't be Sith, or whatever the other wolf faction is. So... hello, baddies, has my alignment somehow brought you out of hiding? :smallamused: ((I'm also not sure where I became neutral, as Swammerdami seems to think; I am 100% town))

 

[spaceman98]

Why does everyone think my role is a cover Role? It's not a good cover role if people think it is
Han solo is a good cover role

Just one question: The wine in front of me, or the wine in front of you?

*facepalm* I read the rules when I signed up, but when I looked back at my role PM, neutral-evil rang D&D-like to me. I... hadn't realized that's what it meant. >.<

Alright then, I concede that I understand Winston's confusion, but I'm just as confused if his scry is as he claimed. I'm neutral-evil and don't see why he wouldn't get the neutral part in his scry.

...The other thing that's been weird to me is that I don't get how evil scry would then lead to Morgoth alignment, as he and FOS:Swammerdami are both claiming. The only way I could see that is if they believe that evil can't be Town and then further know that it couldn't be Sith, or whatever the other wolf faction is. So... hello, baddies, has my alignment somehow brought you out of hiding? :smallamused: ((I'm also not sure where I became neutral, as Swammerdami seems to think; I am 100% town))

"My roleclaim is inconsistent with facts, but I am town because I say so." Oh come on... At least Winston-Scum-Tarkin is (partially) honest with us.