None Shall Pass 2 [Game Thread - Concluded]

[Sprig]

Both could be truthful; we might be witnessing a 3rd-party vs 3rd-party fight.

I think the priority is to Kill the Morgoth to see whether his name appears in Red or Purple when he flips.

Unvote; Vote Count Dingdong

Can they? I'll go back and find winstons wording but he suggests that:

- CD's VC is incompatible with his own.
- CD says he is town.
- Winston also says that he can win with town.

All 3 statements can't be true.

 

[edse]

So, we could leave Winston alive and use his claimed daykill as an extra lynch tomorrow, but at that point he could just kill anyone and not according to our wishes.

Vote: Winston Hughes

 

[spaceman98]

Can they? I'll go back and find winstons wording but he suggests that:

- CD's VC is incompatible with his own.
- CD says he is town.
- Winston also says that he can win with town.

All 3 statements can't be true.

In theory they could, if Winston's VC was to kill off a certain subset of the town (e.g. kill all LOTRs, kill all non-humans (which would include Morgoth and is consistent with Tarkin's character and the Empire's portrayal in the Original Trilogy)).

CD's existence is incompatible with Winston's hypothetical VC

CD can be town (though I don't personally believe he is for reasons already stated)

Winston can win with a (small subset) of the town (Winston's VC doesn't include "destroy the town").

Of course, such a hypothetical role for Winston is still anti-town, since it would mean a goal involving killing many pro-town players (though it would also call for him killing many anti-towns), which is why I say both of them should hang eventually.

It would be nice to hear Winston's VC from him, spelled out exactly and in public, along with an explanation for why he has/needs an alignment scan of all things. If this is presented, I would be willing to change back to Dingdong. If not, hang Winston today.

 

[Arakhor]

Given that Dingdong just claimed to be a dead chap who, in-setting, was very much anti-"town" until compelled to serve by Aragorn, I'm not buying that he's entirely town.

Then again, Winston claiming to be Tarkin does rather make Sprig seem more town-worthy (barring bussing, multiple Mafia factions and the like).

 

[azzaman333]

Ah, what the hell. I'm doomed either way...

I'm Tarkin, and I have a Death Star, which I can use on odd-numbered days, starting tomorrow. My PG is to use it to daykill someone who can't be killed at night.

See what I mean now? I've been absolutely screwed by this set-up. No cover role, evil alignment, a true role that looks guilty as hell, and a kill ability I can only use twice in the first six days of the game. I assume Zack thought that being able to win with the town was enough compensation, but clearly it wasn't.

unvote; vote: Winston Hughes

Not town, has a day kill. Count Dingdong can wait.

 

[KingMorgan]

unvote; vote: Winston Hughes being lynched today is the prudent course of action.

 

[BSmith1068]

We should think about having a clear second or third place in the voting. It would be better at this point to stop piling on Winston and flush out #2 and #3.

 

[azzaman333]

We should think about having a clear second or third place in the voting. It would be better at this point to stop piling on Winston and flush out #2 and #3.

I disagree. Winston needs to die today, we do not want to give him half a chance to slip away. The way you half-defend him here and the private contact you had with him concerns me.

 

[Arakhor]

Runaway bandwagons serve no one, as they simply allow scum to jump on board. Anyone who's played Mafia enough will know this.

 

[BSmith1068]

Runaway bandwagons serve no one, as they simply allow scum to jump on board. Anyone who's played Mafia enough will know this.

This. I'm fine with lynching him. I'm also fine with giving him a day and letting us get a chance at an extra, directed, kill. We just don't want to have this be a blowout and waste the rest of the phase.

There are also other considerations involved here. I think it would be prudent to have our top three suspects listed accordingly in the vote tally at the end of the day.

 

[Visorslash]

As a sidenote, now that everyone knows my name and role, if you feEl like you have a power or some information that can help the town, feel free to contact me.

 

[Buddhafish]

We should think about having a clear second or third place in the voting. It would be better at this point to stop piling on Winston and flush out #2 and #3.

Ok, so for 2 we definitely need to look at Count Dingdong. While the Winston argument is (very) compelling at this point, BSmith is right. At least Winston tried to be honest with us, while Dingdong's claim is still quite shaky. If he's neutral-evil he probably has some other motive driving him than that of the town.

If this is third party vs third party, we need to kill one and use at least some night abilities on the other to limit what he can accomplish. And if he does do something, we know about it and can act on it for tomorrow. The more information we have the better.

 

[topsecret]

I say we lynch Count Dingdong, because if his claim is true, he can still help the town and it won't hurt the town as much.

If he's lying, we'll get at least some light into Winston's claims. It's best, because:
1) We can (hopefully) see if Winston is lying about his scan.
2) If Winston did scan CD, then kills tomorrow night, we'll know he really does have two abilities.

So it seems that CD is the best lynch. We lose the least, and (hopefully) gain the most.

 

[Snerk]

We should think about having a clear second or third place in the voting. It would be better at this point to stop piling on Winston and flush out #2 and #3.

Runaway bandwagons serve no one, as they simply allow scum to jump on board. Anyone who's played Mafia enough will know this.

I don't know the current tally but it's not a runaway bandwagon on Winston as it can still swing both CD and Winston. And trying to establish a third wagon today with the information we have is now pointless. Both of your continued support of a non-town has been noted.

I've heard rumours that Winston is of empire faction that recruit those with an evil based alliance. Don't know yet if it's pure speculations or there's something to it. But it strengthens my belief that Winston is the best lynch target for today.

 

[azzaman333]

Runaway bandwagons serve no one, as they simply allow scum to jump on board. Anyone who's played Mafia enough will know this.

This. I'm fine with lynching him. I'm also fine with giving him a day and letting us get a chance at an extra, directed, kill. We just don't want to have this be a blowout and waste the rest of the phase.

There are also other considerations involved here. I think it would be prudent to have our top three suspects listed accordingly in the vote tally at the end of the day.

We've got two clear lynch candidates. Anything else is a distraction or misdirection. No one else can be pressured at this point given the strength on those two cases. Winston and Dingdong are literally the only two worth considering today, and need to be eliminated by the town as soon as possible.

Ok, so for 2 we definitely need to look at Count Dingdong. While the Winston argument is (very) compelling at this point, BSmith is right. At least Winston tried to be honest with us, while Dingdong's claim is still quite shaky. If he's neutral-evil he probably has some other motive driving him than that of the town.

If this is third party vs third party, we need to kill one and use at least some night abilities on the other to limit what he can accomplish. And if he does do something, we know about it and can act on it for tomorrow. The more information we have the better.

Dingdong's claim suggests he is not a particularly dangerous nor imminent threat if he is scum. Winston's claim suggests he is a very real, very dangerous threat if he is scum. Hence why Winston should die today, and we verify Dingdong's role tonight (if we have vig) or tomorrow at lynch.

I say we lynch Count Dingdong, because if his claim is true, he can still help the town and it won't hurt the town as much.

If he's lying, we'll get at least some light into Winston's claims. It's best, because:
1) We can (hopefully) see if Winston is lying about his scan.
2) If Winston did scan CD, then kills tomorrow night, we'll know he really does have two abilities.

So it seems that CD is the best lynch. We lose the least, and (hopefully) gain the most.

As I just said above, the biggest threat we face is a scenario where Winston is scum. Dingdong is relatively harmless in comparison. Both need to die, but Winston needs to die before he can use his daykill to kill an extra villager.

 

[Riedquat]

The only clear thing to me is both deserve to rest in a deep grave, now if there is something true about what Count Dingdong said and he can't be lynched I don't want my vote wasted there, so unvote; vote: Winston Hughes

 

[christos200]

Vote: Winston Hughes, because I like going with the river.

 

[spaceman98]

I don't know the current tally but it's not a runaway bandwagon on Winston as it can still swing both CD and Winston. And trying to establish a third wagon today with the information we have is now pointless. Both of your continued support of a non-town has been noted.

I've heard rumours that Winston is of empire faction that recruit those with an evil based alliance. Don't know yet if it's pure speculations or there's something to it. But it strengthens my belief that Winston is the best lynch target for today.

You do realize that any of Winston's mafia partners would have bussed him a long time ago? Mafiosi won't stand by their partner to the last. They know that, even if Winston does everything the town tells him to, his supporters will come under massive suspicion after he (predictably) flips Tarkin.

Your commitment to making a runaway wagon and silencing all dissent has been noted.

Dingdong's claim suggests he is not a particularly dangerous nor imminent threat if he is scum. Winston's claim suggests he is a very real, very dangerous threat if he is scum. Hence why Winston should die today, and we verify Dingdong's role tonight (if we have vig) or tomorrow at lynch.

Dingdong's claim is a lie if he's scum.

Vote: Winston Hughes, because I like going with the river.

It would be nice to hear Winston's VC from him, spelled out exactly and in public, along with an explanation for why he has/needs an alignment scan of all things. If this is presented, I would be willing to change back to Dingdong. If not, hang Winston today.

Winston, my offer still stands. I'll keep voting for you until you provide this info.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Right now, I'm feeling a real sense of sadness at having never had a chance to really get into what is set up to be the best game on this site for years - a game which I would have played the hell out of had I been given the chance.

To those townies who've been open-minded enough to see the essential truth in my words, I want to say thank you and well done. Once the game is over, it will become clear that everything I did today was to the town's benefit, even if many of its members were too blind to see that.

And with that, I'm done. All that remains is for me to wish the town good luck, and to issue one last piece of advice: things are not all what they seem here; what look like villains might actually be heroes, and vice versa. Don't give your trust too easily, and beware the easy lie.

 

[Tanar Aerdoth]

You're not giving certain answers.