Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinain schoolgirl

Is this defensible?


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zulu9812

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From The Guardian
Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
The Guardian, Wednesday 16 November 2005
Article history

An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.

The soldier, who has only been identified as "Captain R", was charged with relatively minor offences for the killing of Iman al-Hams who was shot 17 times as she ventured near an Israeli army post near Rafah refugee camp in Gaza a year ago.

The manner of Iman's killing, and the revelation of a tape recording in which the captain is warned that she was just a child who was "scared to death", made the shooting one of the most controversial since the Palestinian intifada erupted five years ago even though hundreds of other children have also died.

After the verdict, Iman's father, Samir al-Hams, said the army never intended to hold the soldier accountable.

"They did not charge him with Iman's murder, only with small offences, and now they say he is innocent of those even though he shot my daughter so many times," he said. "This was the cold-blooded murder of a girl. The soldier murdered her once and the court has murdered her again. What is the message? They are telling their soldiers to kill Palestinian children."

The military court cleared the soldier of illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and perverting the course of justice by asking soldiers under his command to alter their accounts of the incident.

Capt R's lawyers argued that the "confirmation of the kill" after a suspect is shot was a standard Israeli military practice to eliminate terrorist threats.

Following the verdict, Capt R burst into tears, turned to the public benches and said: "I told you I was innocent."

The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb. It is still not known why the girl ventured into the area but witnesses described her as at least 100 yards from the military post which was in any case well protected.

A recording of radio exchanges between Capt R and his troops obtained by Israeli television revealed that from the beginning soldiers identified Iman as a child.

In the recording, a soldier in a watchtower radioed a colleague in the army post's operations room and describes Iman as "a little girl" who was "scared to death". After soldiers first opened fire, she dropped her schoolbag which was then hit by several bullets establishing that it did not contain explosive. At that point she was no longer carrying the bag and, the tape revealed, was heading away from the army post when she was shot.

Although the military speculated that Iman might have been trying to "lure" the soldiers out of their base so they could be attacked by accomplices, Capt R made the decision to lead some of his troops into the open. Shortly afterwards he can be heard on the recording saying that he has shot the girl and, believing her dead, then "confirmed the kill".

"I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over," he said.

Palestinian witnesses said they saw the captain shoot Iman twice in the head, walk away, turn back and fire a stream of bullets into her body.

On the tape, Capt R then "clarifies" to the soldiers under his command why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the [security] zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed."

At no point did the Israeli troops come under attack.

The prosecution case was damaged when a soldier who initially said he had seen Capt R point his weapon at the girl's body and open fire later told the court he had fabricated the story.

Capt R claimed that he had not fired the shots at the girl but near her. However, Dr Mohammed al-Hams, who inspected the child's body at Rafah hospital, counted numerous wounds. "She has at least 17 bullets in several parts of the body, all along the chest, hands, arms, legs," he told the Guardian shortly afterwards. "The bullets were large and shot from a close distance. The most serious injuries were to her head. She had three bullets in the head. One bullet was shot from the right side of the face beside the ear. It had a big impact on the whole face."

The army's initial investigation concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically". But after some of the soldiers under his command went to the Israeli press to give a different version, the military police launched a separate investigation after which he was charged.

Capt R claimed that the soldiers under his command were out to get him because they are Jewish and he is Druze.

The transcript

The following is a recording of a three-way conversation that took place between a soldier in a watchtower, an army operations room and Capt R, who shot the girl

From the watchtower "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward." "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?" "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." "I think that one of the positions took her out." "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

From the operations room "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot from one of the army posts

Watchtower "I think that one of the positions took her out."

Captain R "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Capt R then "clarifies" why he killed Iman

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

By the way, when the defence team say that "confirmation of the kill is standard", what they mean is "shoot some more to make sure they're dead". Even if it's a little girl.
 
You're in the wrong forum, zulu. This goes into World History.
 
Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed.
 
Until they discover it was a 10 year old girl, then they were doing their job. What was she doing there anyway?
 
You're in the wrong forum, zulu. This goes into World History.

It appears this is probably correct. Currently the OP might be misleadingly suggesting that something like a new appeal/verdict/other current event had come out - all the links and the article indicate this is not the case, so we have news a few years old.
 
By the way, when the defence team say that "confirmation of the kill is standard", what they mean is "shoot some more to make sure they're dead". Even if it's a little girl.

I dont profess to know the details put forward to the court for review. This story doesnt do a very good job of giving balanced evidence.

However, I do have one viewpoint. This is what occurs when a society turns their children into weapons against soldiers. The fact that terrorists have forced children to carry bombs in their school bags or upon their person is directly why children now become targets in such a war.

Farfur the palistinian terror mouse doesnt seem to funny anymore does he?
 
I dont profess to know the details put forward to the court for review. This story doesnt do a very good job of giving balanced evidence.

However, I do have one viewpoint. This is what occurs when a society turns their children into weapons against soldiers. The fact that terrorists have forced children to carry bombs in their school bags or upon their person is directly why children now become targets in such a war.

Farfur the palistinian terror mouse doesnt seem to funny anymore does he?

Very much this. It wouldn't be the first time a child was strapped up with bombs and told to take a stroll past a near-by army post.
 
How can peace ever come about when things like this are happening? You can't just go shooting anyone you like because you can just because their people hate your people. She was 13, harmless, and there was no reason here life should have ended so violently right then and there.

Plus, putting that many bullets, even into a hostile target, is shameful. I can't even find a word to describe how disgusting it is.
 
However, I do have one viewpoint. This is what occurs when a society turns their children into weapons against soldiers. The fact that terrorists have forced children to carry bombs in their school bags or upon their person is directly why children now become targets in such a war.

Oh right, Palestinians terrorists start strapping bombs to children, so all Palestinian children are potential suicide bombers. Better be safe than sorry. :ar15:

Excuse me.

:vomit:
 
Yeah, sounds like Israel needs to be a little bit tougher on its own war criminals... :(
 
I dont profess to know the details put forward to the court for review. This story doesnt do a very good job of giving balanced evidence.

However, I do have one viewpoint. This is what occurs when a society turns their children into weapons against soldiers. The fact that terrorists have forced children to carry bombs in their school bags or upon their person is directly why children now become targets in such a war.

Farfur the palistinian terror mouse doesnt seem to funny anymore does he?
This. It's a sad fact that anyone, including a child, can be a suicide bomber these days.

That said, this guy still sounds like a complete tool from the information presented above. There's "confirming a kill" and there's going completely overboard by pumping a corpse full of a ridiculous amount of bullets for kicks, which is what the article implies. Of course, the article isn't even close to unbiased. Then there's the charge of altering evidence. If that is true - and I doubt any of us will ever know - then that casts the entire story into doubt.
 
Yes, we are aware that it is impossible for Israelis to do something so evil. It must be bias, or outright propaganda, by terrorists who wants to wipe Israel off the map. The fact is only Palestinians are capable of such horrible acts against civilians.

Yeah, sounds like Israel needs to be a little bit tougher on its own war criminals... :(

This story is five years ago. The IDF has fought more like an honourable armed forces since the... uh... yes...
 
Yes, we are aware that it is impossible for Israelis to do something so evil. It must be bias, or outright propaganda, by terrorists who wants to wipe Israel off the map. The fact is only Palestinians are capable of such horrible acts against civilians.



This story is five years ago. The IDF has fought more like an honourable armed forces since the... uh... yes...
Please don't paint me with that bullcrap brush. I am well-aware of various war crimes committed by the Israeli military. After all, my father and grandfather both served in the IDF in the past. They left Israel because they didn't like it there. Just because I'm Jewish doesn't mean I'm pro-Israel. I'm actually quite disgusted by many of their activities. But this case would be exactly the same whether the soldier were Israeli, American, French, Russian, or a hybrid monkey creature.
 
This is what occurs when a society turns their children into weapons against soldiers. The fact that terrorists have forced children to carry bombs in their school bags or upon their person is directly why children now become (INNOCENT) targets in such a war.
Says it all.
The soldier is guilty for his ACTIONS while the terrorism is guilty for that action's SOURCE. :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
It's a well known fact that the Guardian is a (very) left wing paper.

It's also a well known fact that IDF often tries to cover up it's own misbehaviors and warcrimes.

It's a well known fact that Zulu9812 will jump onboard anything that criticise Israel.

It's also a well known fact that mobboss will defend Israel no matter what it does.

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If the article is correct (I would like an other source) then the soldier is definitly guilty. The girl stops and drops her bag which is then shot several times. She then runs away and THEN she is killed. Ok, so first we establish that she's a child, then we establish that she in not dangerous and THEN we kill her? And then we shot her a little more? This behavior is inexcusable, which is why only mobboss and his usual gang is defending it.
 
Please don't paint me with that bullcrap brush. I am well-aware of various war crimes committed by the Israeli military. After all, my father and grandfather both served in the IDF in the past. They left Israel because they didn't like it there. Just because I'm Jewish doesn't mean I'm pro-Israel. I'm actually quite disgusted by many of their activities. But this case would be exactly the same whether the soldier were Israeli, American, French, Russian, or a hybrid monkey creature.

Just commenting on the one-sided reporting tendencies of Western media. Your comments just provided the catalyst. I think I can distinguish between Jews, Israel, Israeli government, IDF, and so on.
 
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