NOTW XLIII - The Walkingdead!

[Backwards Logic]

Backwards Logic, if you think anti-lynch powers don't go with innocents why have you not been all over TheForestAuro?

All Items to Earthling It's time someone else got the items.

Publicly? There's no point. He can't be lynched. Done and proven.

Behind the scenes? Split 50/50 on whether viging him is the best idea. On one hand, what you said is true, he should have been vig'd by now. On the other, his secondary ability (a roleblock) has been confirmed and that has its uses. Since I don't know of any other roleblockers out there, killing off possibly the only one has drawbacks. He is connected to Autolycus through a scan on TFA (both were at the school when the zombie outbreak happened, and Auto saved him and kept him alive), but outside of that it did not reveal anything pro-zombie or otherwise. So yea, like I said, split right down the middle.

That said, I can see reasoning that he should be vig'd. After all, from post 173:

In any event, I think TFA should be vig'd - I doubt he can avoid the lynch and have a pro-town power also. I don't think we can risk lynching him again and having the day wasted. That's what I have thus far. It ain't perfect, but it's better than nothing.

Bad Player has exonerated himself in my eyes since then. TFA is still on the same step now as he was then.

 

[Kennigit]

So, Kennigit claims he investigates a place to determine what's there, but hasn't investigated the detective agency - so what, someone else told you about the items there? [/COLOR][/B].

oh well I knew that from the start, seeing as I'm sam hammer the detective.

 

[choxorn]

choxorn, you say those pills of yours can stop a lynch? Color me skeptical on that claim. Prove it.

Yeah, once. I guess I'd prefer using it for something other than this, but whatever.

I'm more than willing to use it to save myself if you really want me to, but what's the point? You'll just think I'm anti-town anyway, because no townie could have that power. Why use my power to save myself from the lynch when you'd just lynch me again later? That just wastes a lynch, and doesn't help much.

Apparently I have some kind of victory condition or personal goal to outlive the zombie outbreak and find those responsible. It's the only real reason I have to stay alive. But what the hell do I know or care? My Role PM doesn't say enough about that, and Takhisis has spent the entire game being way too unclear about what the hell it is some of the townies are supposed to actually be doing, and what the hell a lot of the things about the game are.

So get me if you can, ya whippersnappers, but I'd prefer it if you just got off my lawn and got rid of those damned zombies. Kids these days...

 

[Earthling]

Backwards Logic, I wasn't trying to say that was literally the first and only time Bad Player claimed to be going after people based on some unshared ability, the point was that he has made such claims. Nor was it literally the first post he made about SouthernKing. Claiming a non-public ability result has happened before, and he's complained about Gone 3 the Celt's scan, complained about other people's use of coffee. Sorry if the wording has not been perfect but I think you know that's distracting from the main point, looking at several lynches or attempted lynches on information that is not correct.

Bad Player is using some ability at night and possibly disagreeing with our other scanners, and this hasn't been shared in enough detail and isn't sufficient reason for me to support any more such lynches in the future.

I get that Backwards Logic is not responsible for ability claims Bad Player is making. If you're not attempting to share more about or defend Bad Player it's not your fault whatever he's done.

And to be fair about distracting, arguing about little details over a previous Day can be distracting from what we really need to discuss in the present and can actually get done. Unless the goal is to put somebody else on the chopping back should choxorn come up innocent, debating Bad Player's past claims won't help here.

I still think we really need answered: why is lynching choxorn the best choice today? It makes no follow up to the successful lynch of Autolycus because choxorn's not related by any way we know, doesn't aid us against the thief and/or serial killer as we know that's not choxorn regardless, and doesn't put any pressure on any lurkers or unknowns. What's the reason to ignore circumstancial evidence (say from Kennigit) that zombie conversion does not work the way some had suspected when that's also a stated part of the case against choxorn?

 

[TheForestAuro]

Is this the part where I'm supposed to make a passionate defense of my innocence? I've already said my piece. In any event I've been coordinating all of my night actions with Bad Player since the start, and willingly cooperated with the other active townies. When you vig me you'll lose a roleblock - as has been discussed - and you'll be no closer to your goals.

My "no lynch" suggestion was based on the quirky idea that perhaps Takhisis made an entire mafia game with no actual enemy just as some sort of experiment in paranoia. My attention from this has been fading somewhat (since almost every single rock I've thrown since Backwards Logic has missed, I think) so I didn't even notice everyone was talking about murdering me.

But whatever. Go ahead, if you think you've got little timmy the GOVERNMENT AGENT -thunderclap- finally pinned down.

 

[choxorn]

So, you're a Government Agent, almost certainly Autolycus's teammate, and thus anti-town...

Vote: TheForestAuro, because I don't even care if you can't be lynched, I'm going to try, to save myself if nothing else.

 

[TheForestAuro]

So, you're a Government Agent, almost certainly Autolycus's teammate, and thus anti-town...

Vote: TheForestAuro, because I don't even care if you can't be lynched, I'm going to try, to save myself if nothing else.

choxorn, your sarcasm detection system is seriously malfunctioning and I can't help but think you're trying to look extra good right now.

 

[TheForestAuro]

choxorn. Just read up on your anti-lynch pills. WE APPEAR TO BE AT AN IMPASSE. But I guess I might have missed it, what exactly is the case for me being auto's teammate again?

 

[Bad Player]

TFA can you survive another lynch? At least I would feel more comfortable at the moment with no lynch.

 

[Bad Player]

What I'm not a proponent of is wasting our lynches when we likely have a scum team and serial killer to get rid of. The only reasonable "test" I'm seeing here is the test of which people bandwagon on lynches without a great reason. That already happened once with SouthernKing where you and BadPlayer didn't share what evidence you might have had.

We could have Gone 3 the Celt scan choxorn if he must because I'm trusting that as a check for innocence, otherwise I do feel going after choxorn is a waste of time in the first place. Have choxorn give the pills to someone else and leave them there if it's still that big of a concern.

Basically, my concern is I don't really care about this pills item or see why it matters that much. Testing what the pills do isn't worth our time to the point of taking a whole day's lynch. The thing people might want to "test" appears to be "is choxorn a scum." This lynch strategy isn't actually effective for that because if the pills stop the lynch we still don't know either way, and choxorn just isn't the best suspect in the first place.

Yeah I have reservations about using the pills as a proxy for choxorn's innocence...

 

[Bad Player]

Let's clarify something. There's no such thing as a wasted lynch, except when people abstain or vote no lynch.

Lynches give information. They can see who's caught in a lie, they can reveal who's with who, and they can be used as an interrogation tool to make people flinch. Lynches give one thing besides the obvious guilty or not scan: information.

I voted Southern King because I wanted him to speak up. If he didn't, oh well, no loss. Like you, I'm not keen sitting around and waiting for answers to come to me. If he's not contributing publicly, it's one less person to have to scan/watch/vig later due them being a total unknown. I should point out you were okay with this pressure when it was happening, didn't lift a finger then to stop it, and then now only start placing blame to make some point I haven't quite grasped yet. Because you see, you're voting landlubber now on the very same premise I voted Southern King then. What's up, dude?

I agree with your lynch reasoning basically but just the one reason in this game not to lynch an in active might be that they can take zombie hits and if converted not turn on us (because they are inactive).

 

[Bad Player]

I didn't have a reason to stop the SouthernKing lynch, true, but I'm not complaining about the result of the lynch itself so much as the intention to lynch people without sharing information.

Here's the relevant part:

Bad Player claimed to people, maybe in private too, he had relevant evidence/ability tells against SouthernKing, and people bandwagoned on that.

If Bad Player informed you of nothing and his reasons were his own then you weren't involved in that. It was a fair lurker lynch at face value. It's hard to tell though - the public thread has not seen much mention of when things like the coffee has been used - remember that case on j65 that popped out of nowhere too, was that based on coffee or what? If the problem is really that you, Backwards Logic, have not been privy to enough evidence and are having to blindly follow Bad Player or someone else in your private dealings, maybe they need to answer some things in the same way you think choxorn needs to

My point is that withholding information at this point is not usually helping. To be honest people are right to point out that Bad Player especially has been onboard an awful lot of innocent lynches; it's possible to think you guys are still innocent but your method of deciding who to lynch and what to do isn't working.

IIRC it wasn't based on anything private but I'd have to re-read the thread if it's useful to you to have my explanation.

 

[Bad Player]

Backwards Logic, I wasn't trying to say that was literally the first and only time Bad Player claimed to be going after people based on some unshared ability, the point was that he has made such claims. Nor was it literally the first post he made about SouthernKing. Claiming a non-public ability result has happened before, and he's complained about Gone 3 the Celt's scan, complained about other people's use of coffee. Sorry if the wording has not been perfect but I think you know that's distracting from the main point, looking at several lynches or attempted lynches on information that is not correct.

Bad Player is using some ability at night and possibly disagreeing with our other scanners, and this hasn't been shared in enough detail and isn't sufficient reason for me to support any more such lynches in the future.

I get that Backwards Logic is not responsible for ability claims Bad Player is making. If you're not attempting to share more about or defend Bad Player it's not your fault whatever he's done.

And to be fair about distracting, arguing about little details over a previous Day can be distracting from what we really need to discuss in the present and can actually get done. Unless the goal is to put somebody else on the chopping back should choxorn come up innocent, debating Bad Player's past claims won't help here.

I still think we really need answered: why is lynching choxorn the best choice today? It makes no follow up to the successful lynch of Autolycus because choxorn's not related by any way we know, doesn't aid us against the thief and/or serial killer as we know that's not choxorn regardless, and doesn't put any pressure on any lurkers or unknowns. What's the reason to ignore circumstancial evidence (say from Kennigit) that zombie conversion does not work the way some had suspected when that's also a stated part of the case against choxorn?

You can also ask me directly if you think I'm doing something dubious.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Apparently I have some kind of victory condition or personal goal to outlive the zombie outbreak and find those responsible. It's the only real reason I have to stay alive. But what the hell do I know or care? My Role PM doesn't say enough about that, and Takhisis has spent the entire game being way too unclear about what the hell it is some of the townies are supposed to actually be doing, and what the hell a lot of the things about the game are.

I still have absolutely no freaking clue what I was meant to be doing when I was alive.

/back to being dead.

 

[Visorslash]

Reminds me of Make it Look like an Accident.

Treva, you should be clearer when it comes to things like objectives.

 

[Bad Player]

circumstancial evidence (say from Kennigit) that zombie conversion does not work the way some had suspected when that's also a stated part of the case against choxorn?

What is this circumstantial evidence about zombie conversion and what did Kennigit say?

 

[Earthling]

Bad Player, it's not that I particularly think you are Company scum, but I'm critical of your conclusions. We know we have a scum team and probable serial killer that just need to be eliminated and should contribute to town victory - I don't see a reason to act against that goal of eliminating them. I think you either have inaccurate information (you're getting false claims and results from people) or not sharing with other innocents when it would really help.

What I'd like to know is other scan information you have available and how and what you have found out. Whatever you have other than Gone 3 the Celt's scan would still be useful (and who you don't appear to be coordinating with anyway, nor with Kennigit). In particular, what have you learned about any of: DaveShack, mat93, BSmith II, Seon, johnhughthom, landlubber? The only thing from the past that I'd think really matters now is what evidence you thought you had against j65d and how you got it.

I still don't think the choxorn lynch is useful at all, so not landlubber from me.

classical_hero is the only viable alternative right now, lots of people not voting but with choxorn's vote he can hopefully save himself.

 

[TheForestAuro]

Sure, let's do classical_hero.

 

[Backwards Logic]

classical_hero is a terrible lynch choice. With time, I can prove or deny his private claims to me. In any event, if what he says is true, he'd be useful.

 

[Earthling]

I'm convinced choxorn is a worse lynch choice. You can help us choose someone else by unvoting choxorn and I would be great with that.