Obama is "Grown-Up Trayvon"?

[Formaldehyde]

I don't know if I'm just being dense, or missing a joke of Forma's based on woody's "100%," but I can't figure out how to read the proffered chart.

Here's the report on which the chart is based.

He had freedom enough to draw his gun, but not freedom enough to escape?

Not to mention that the prosecution clearly showed that there was no way for Martin to have even seen Zimmerman's gun based on his own statements. That it was just yet another lie by a well-known liar.

 

[Berzerker]

Forma, if you're straddling someone in a fight and they have a gun on their hip, you're gonna feel it. Once you feel it, seeing it is the next step

Jesus

 

[Gori the Grey]

Here's the report on which the chart is based.

Thanks, Forma. Their Figure One is easier for me to read, but then when I see the control for all of these stats is white-on-white, I see how your chart works, too. Should say that somewhere in the legend or title, though, methinks. But telling data, nonetheless.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Forma, if you're straddling someone in a fight and they have a gun on their hip, you're gonna feel it. Once you feel it, seeing it is the next step

Jesus

Only his gun was behind him, as illustrated by George himself in this photo.

Zimmerman was literally laying on it where he couldn't have even possibly gotten it, based on his own lies. Trayvon Martin was supposedly pinning his shoulders with his knees at the time, yet he was somehow supposed to have seen it behind him.

Didn't you pay any attention at all to the trial?

"Jesus".

 

[Berzerker]

he didn't say he was laying on the gun

 

[Berzerker]

Form, his hand is on his back right hip where Martin's left knee would have been

give it up

 

[Formaldehyde]

Zimmerman's hand isn't even visible in the photo above, which it clearly would have been if his gun had been on his hip.

Zimmerman also never claimed that Martin felt his gun, nor did his attorneys. He claimed that Martin saw it when his jacket rode up, which is clearly yet another lie by a known liar because it was behind Martin at the time based on Zimmerman's own statements.

"Give it up".

 

[woody60707]

Wow, we are starting this all again.

 

[Berzerker]

Zimmerman's hand isn't even visible in the photo above, which it clearly would have been if his gun had been on his hip.

I can see his hand, I could certainly see a holstered gun too.

Zimmerman also never claimed that Martin felt his gun, nor did his attorneys. He claimed that Martin saw it when his jacket rode up, which is clearly yet another lie by a known liar because it was behind Martin at the time based on Zimmerman's own statements.

How would Zimmerman know Martin felt the gun?

You said Zimmerman lied about Martin seeing the gun because it was behind Zimmerman in the small of his back, then you edited your post and added an image of Zimmerman's hand on his back right hip. Thats where Martin's left knee was, rubbing against Zimmerman's right hip. If the gun was out of Martin's sight, it was not tucked away from his leg.

Wow, we are starting this all again.

Dont get sucked in, turn away

 

[JollyRoger]

Obviously, if Martin didn't know about the gun, he would have suspected Z had one from the erection Z got when thinking about his gun.

 

[Berzerker]

you need a lesson in anatomy from Forma

 

[timtofly]

One was walking around, the other was hiding. I may be wrong but I dont think she said Martin told her he was going to approach Zimmerman.

I have to thank Forma for helping me understand what happened, he kept focusing on the T. But Forma said Martin wasn't hiding, he was - he just ran away from Zimmerman, whats he gonna do, stand on the sidewalk at the T in plain sight? Course not, he made the turn and ducked out of sight while Zimmerman walked by...twice.

Thats why there's missing time between the dispatcher's request not to follow and the actual exchange of words and fight. Forma got me focused on that missing time too, most of the research I've done was to confirm what the "Zimmerman's guilty" crowd was saying. And most of it was wrong and completely backwards. The fact this anger and ignorance was induced by the media without help from Fox "News" doesn't bode well for us...

The problem though is that nothing happened at the T. They were walking toward each other. Martin did not need to hide any where. It was getting dark and that was enough to keep Mr. Z from seeing him at a certain distance.

Martin ran out of a place to walk. He was not ready to enter the apartment on the south side. He was heading back north.

Mr. Z came back to the T after not finding Martin on the next street. He headed south at the T.

Mr. Z was heading south when he came into view of Martin who was heading north. If you see how far Mr. Z is from the top of the T, in the picture, that is where they were when they asked each other the questions. If Mr. Z was surprised, it was because Martin was heading straight for him. We can assume, he was rather pleased.

Why the trial did not bring out more motive is beyond me. I am not a lawyer. I am sure the defense would paint as little motive on Mr. Z's part. It seems to me the whole argument was only what happened during the actual struggle, than any reason there was a struggle. That is the only part where the best speculation is done, avoiding any concrete facts from the phone conversations.

 

[Berzerker]

in his walk through Zimmerman said he was closer to the T when Martin attacked him and thats where they found some of his items. The fight moved south of the T from there.

 

[Antilogic]

Wow, we are starting this all again.

Seriously, Zim is the new Ron Paul.

 

[timtofly]

in his walk through Zimmerman said he was closer to the T when Martin attacked him and thats where they found some of his items. The fight moved south of the T from there.

Are you agreeing that Mr. Z was walking south, or avoiding the issue? Even, if they met closer to the T, then perhaps Martin tried to get away, and was again detained by Mr. Z? Even if the items were found a yard or more from the T, it would seem that Mr. Z was not heading back to his truck, but was actually walking south from the T.

Hi, Antilogic.

 

[Berzerker]

I didn't avoid the issue, I said the fight started closer to the T and moved south - Zimmerman dropped stuff when he got sucker punched and that stuff was found at the T.

Now you think he walked thru the T and couldn't see Martin, but when he came back he walked 1 yard south of the T and saw Martin "and" approached him? Sounds like it was Martin doing the approaching, dont ya think? How far do you think Martin was from the T where they found Zimmerman's stuff?

He did the approaching, Zimmerman didn't even see him coming. Thats why he said Martin must have come at him from the bushes.

 

[timtofly]

The closer to the T the confrontation is, the fact that Martin may have tried to get away is higher. No one has come forth with a motive why Martin would "attack" without being provoked. In fact he did ask "why are you following me?". He did not ask, "why are you looking for me?" or "What are you looking for?" It seems that Martin was aware that he was being followed, and hindsight says, he may have survived if after seeing Mr. Z coming towards him, TO TURN around and walk away. But walking and talking on the phone is not a crime, and neither is asking (who he knew was profiling him) why he was being profiled is not a crime either.

Why did both Mr. Z and Martin "drop" the objects they were holding? So their hands would be free, would be the basic assumption. What cannot be assumed is what happened next. I am not saying that Martin may not have acted out of hatred of authority, and hitting first would be the best way to get away without much of a struggle. That does not excuse Mr. Z for being where he was not supposed to be, and Mr. Z had more obvious motive than Trayvon Martin in keeping Martin from escaping at all cost.

So can we not mention hiding in the bushes any more? We have gotten past that illogical assumption and they were more than likely walking toward each other, and asking questions in a half civilized, half profiling way.

 

[Berzerker]

Forma, where did Zimmerman say the gun was in the small of his back?

The closer to the T the confrontation is, the fact that Martin may have tried to get away is higher.

why?

No one has come forth with a motive why Martin would "attack" without being provoked.

Martin did, the cracka was following him and he didn't like it

In fact he did ask "why are you following me?". He did not ask, "why are you looking for me?" or "What are you looking for?" It seems that Martin was aware that he was being followed

Thats why he was hiding instead of running home

and hindsight says, he may have survived if after seeing Mr. Z coming towards him, TO TURN around and walk away. But walking and talking on the phone is not a crime, and neither is asking (who he knew was profiling him) why he was being profiled is not a crime either.

punching someone is a crime

Why did both Mr. Z and Martin "drop" the objects they were holding?

one dropped their stuff to throw punches, the other because they got punched.

That does not excuse Mr. Z for being where he was not supposed to be

he had every right to be there too

So can we not mention hiding in the bushes any more?

why?

 

[Antilogic]

So... Obama, guys?

 

[Berzerker]

thats been settled, it was wrong for Obama to get involved

is that all?

glad to help