obligatory BNW screenshot thread
- Thread starter fuzzatron717
- Start date
What's that barbarian unit?
I don't think it's a brute. Could this be a civs UU spawned by barbs?
Spoiler :
Quoting the screenshot again, since it is back on page 8 and newcomers may be wondering what the hell we are all talking about.
Also, if it were a generic unit available to all, barbs still have access to it just like they can have pikes, marines, frigates.
Unfortunately this still isn't an easy answer because the model does have a fairly unique design. It would mean that all Civs get a dark-skinned generic unit (which is fine seeing as how the alternate is true: starting warriors are lighter skinned regardless of Civ choice. Just pointing it out as it adds to the mystery of whether this is indeed a unique unit or not).
ferretbacon
Obsessor
In the end, it is fair to speculate on a new system. The nature of an expansion is that it adds unprecedented (insofar as CiV alone is concerned) mechanics to the game. Who knows what to expect?
Whether the data points for each argument are on equal footing or not, which is itself subjective due to the fact that both require some degree of stretching the imagination, there is a reason to give either argument some weight.
It may indeed be a very odd looking barbarian or it may be a new UU made to appear as a barbarian for some inexplicable reason (to which my explanation could possibly serve).
Those two interpretations pretty much cover the subject. Either you think it's a new barbarian unit or you think it's a new player unit. Either interpretation also has the responsibilty for positing an explanation. If the former, what is the new barbarian unit's purpose? Why was it added? What does it give the barbarians? Why does it look the way it does? For the latter, what could possibly explain why the unit looks like a barbarian? Of these explanations, what would be likely from a gameplay perspective? Of the possibilities, what would make the most sense?
Occam's Razor does indeed indicate that the simplest explanation is probably the truth, but when the difference between the two is so razor thin, and given the context of a new expansion, in which we can reasonably expect any number of new gameplay mechanics, who knows which way it will cut?
I'll give either explanation equal credence at this point; on the one hand, the unit is undeniably a barbarian in color. On the other, there are undeniably new civilizations with new units being added. It's also very safe to assume that that unit, whatever it may be, was purposefully placed there to tease anyone scrutinizing the screenshot. Extending off of that, it is also safe to assume that that unit could have something to do with the next civilization revealed. If this is the case, it is a worthwhile and equally credible endeavour to speculate as to the possible mechanics underlying this unit's ability to appear as a barbarian, withholding the fact that it is merely a UU doctored to appear in a barbarian's color scheme to mislead/confound us.
Occam's eponymous razor can cut either way as far as I'm concerned, because either way is equally credible, even if one requires a bit more stretch to the imagination.
Whether the data points for each argument are on equal footing or not, which is itself subjective due to the fact that both require some degree of stretching the imagination, there is a reason to give either argument some weight.
It may indeed be a very odd looking barbarian or it may be a new UU made to appear as a barbarian for some inexplicable reason (to which my explanation could possibly serve).
Those two interpretations pretty much cover the subject. Either you think it's a new barbarian unit or you think it's a new player unit. Either interpretation also has the responsibilty for positing an explanation. If the former, what is the new barbarian unit's purpose? Why was it added? What does it give the barbarians? Why does it look the way it does? For the latter, what could possibly explain why the unit looks like a barbarian? Of these explanations, what would be likely from a gameplay perspective? Of the possibilities, what would make the most sense?
Occam's Razor does indeed indicate that the simplest explanation is probably the truth, but when the difference between the two is so razor thin, and given the context of a new expansion, in which we can reasonably expect any number of new gameplay mechanics, who knows which way it will cut?
I'll give either explanation equal credence at this point; on the one hand, the unit is undeniably a barbarian in color. On the other, there are undeniably new civilizations with new units being added. It's also very safe to assume that that unit, whatever it may be, was purposefully placed there to tease anyone scrutinizing the screenshot. Extending off of that, it is also safe to assume that that unit could have something to do with the next civilization revealed. If this is the case, it is a worthwhile and equally credible endeavour to speculate as to the possible mechanics underlying this unit's ability to appear as a barbarian, withholding the fact that it is merely a UU doctored to appear in a barbarian's color scheme to mislead/confound us.
Occam's eponymous razor can cut either way as far as I'm concerned, because either way is equally credible, even if one requires a bit more stretch to the imagination.
KillerClowns
Emperor
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,139
@Antioch: You completely missed the point ferretbacon was making: your "data points" are arbitrary, a rhetorical trick in the guise of formal logic.
I actually agree that the UU is probably just a new barbarian, simply because a raider UU would be a frusterating game mechanic to play against with no obvious gain, and a useless one against anything but an AI to play with. But I cannot stand to see the principles of logic be wantonly abused.
I actually agree that the UU is probably just a new barbarian, simply because a raider UU would be a frusterating game mechanic to play against with no obvious gain, and a useless one against anything but an AI to play with. But I cannot stand to see the principles of logic be wantonly abused.
I didn't miss the point, I just don't agree with the premise. Whether the data points are arbitrary or not doesn't matter as long as the same rules are applied to both theories. If you're seriously investigating the issue and not just trying to win an argument, it's hard to overlook the issue of the unit appearing in barbarian colors. Just because we don't know the correct answer doesn't mean that all theories are equal; that's what Occam's Razor is all about.
Heinage
Khan
I think this is the most likely.
The unit we see was probably originally intended for the pueblo.
The devs partly want to show us what development they had done for the pueblo and partly give us a message that they will still add another native American civ with this unit but either haven't decided on the colors or want us to stay in the dark for a bit longer
About the dig site in the xcom screenshot, can someone please provide me with a link to it?
ferretbacon
Obsessor
The unit we see was probably originally intended for the pueblo.
The devs partly want to show us what development they had done for the pueblo and partly give us a message that they will still add another native American civ with this unit but either haven't decided on the colors or want us to stay in the dark for a bit longer
That's actually also a fair explanation. Not sure how far along they were in creating the assests for the Pueblo Indians, but it's a possibility.
anandus
Errorist
Spoiler :
JanghanHong
Enrico Trololo
Maybe, perhaps a new civ can pay an encampment to spawn these units to harass nearby rival civs. If some native American civilization has this as their UA, it would be reasonable. No one predicted that a civilization's UA can outright buy city-states off the map, so clicking on an encampment to pay gold to spawn these UU's wouldn't be too far-fetched.
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
I know this is more of a PAX, but because this is more or less a various analysis of the screenshots, I feel this suits better
I'm rewatching the initial PAX demo and noticed.. they have no new music (yet), the Polish are using Cathereine's music, and the menu still has the G&K. Pablo had Isabella's peace theme music.
... pointless information, but I'm hoping that the DEMO they gonna show us in HD will be a lot more expanded, with appropriate music (G&K had its music ready for the PAX demo, but then again taht demo was by default HD)
I'm rewatching the initial PAX demo and noticed.. they have no new music (yet), the Polish are using Cathereine's music, and the menu still has the G&K. Pablo had Isabella's peace theme music.
... pointless information, but I'm hoping that the DEMO they gonna show us in HD will be a lot more expanded, with appropriate music (G&K had its music ready for the PAX demo, but then again taht demo was by default HD)
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 6,181
Wouldn't make sense. How would it be better to have turned the Pueblo assets into Barbarian units... Its insulting for one thing and could be just as bad as having added Pope.
ferretbacon
Obsessor
Read the quote inset in my response; I was agreeing to the plausibility of the idea that they might have placed a partially done Pueblo UU into the screenshot as an Easter Egg.
No one said anything about it becoming a permanent barbarian unit.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
I go away for a few hours and when I return we're bringing real logic into the discussion. Man, these devs know how to play around with us.
Though indeed I'm pretty sure they didn't put that unit there for no reason - no matter what theory is likely, it's certain in my opinion that it must be there for some reason given that most of the screenshots are setups.
Though indeed I'm pretty sure they didn't put that unit there for no reason - no matter what theory is likely, it's certain in my opinion that it must be there for some reason given that most of the screenshots are setups.
ferretbacon
Obsessor
Continuing to work under the idea that the barbarian might be a Native American unit of some kind and speculating on the identity...
I've been looking at pictures and reflecting on it a bit more.
Honestly, though it would make sense and be substantially different from the Iriquois, I'm doubtful that it would be an Apache, Sioux, Comanche, Navajo, et cetera.
For one, I'd expect it to be a cavalry UU (or at least I'd expect Firaxis to make it one).
I'd also expect it to be equipped with rifles if it was indeed an Apache. Honestly, I associate rifles with the Apache more than the bow/arrow or a tomahawk. They may merely have gone with a tomahawk because the unit is early game, like the Mohawk, despite the anachronism, and didn't want to equip them with rifles.
Additionally, they don't appear to be dressed in the style of Plains Indians... there are many photographic examples of various Plains Indian tribes, which shows how they dressed (though as a concession, some of these photos depict costumes).
Taken all together, assuming the details aren't just lost in the poor resolution at max zoom, it seems more likely that, if this barbarian is depicting some sort of Native American, it would be an eastern tribe, most likely southeastern. Another northeastern tribe, like the Iriquois, would be ridiculous. There are some already that decry the concept of adding another Native American in. I suspect they'd be especially upset if the two tribes weren't even geographically dissimilar.
So maybe this means that Cahokia idea people keep rattling about might happen? That's not very southern, admittedly. Not sure what else.
I've been looking at pictures and reflecting on it a bit more.
Honestly, though it would make sense and be substantially different from the Iriquois, I'm doubtful that it would be an Apache, Sioux, Comanche, Navajo, et cetera.
For one, I'd expect it to be a cavalry UU (or at least I'd expect Firaxis to make it one).
I'd also expect it to be equipped with rifles if it was indeed an Apache. Honestly, I associate rifles with the Apache more than the bow/arrow or a tomahawk. They may merely have gone with a tomahawk because the unit is early game, like the Mohawk, despite the anachronism, and didn't want to equip them with rifles.
Additionally, they don't appear to be dressed in the style of Plains Indians... there are many photographic examples of various Plains Indian tribes, which shows how they dressed (though as a concession, some of these photos depict costumes).
Taken all together, assuming the details aren't just lost in the poor resolution at max zoom, it seems more likely that, if this barbarian is depicting some sort of Native American, it would be an eastern tribe, most likely southeastern. Another northeastern tribe, like the Iriquois, would be ridiculous. There are some already that decry the concept of adding another Native American in. I suspect they'd be especially upset if the two tribes weren't even geographically dissimilar.
So maybe this means that Cahokia idea people keep rattling about might happen? That's not very southern, admittedly. Not sure what else.
ferretbacon
Obsessor
That crossed my mind as to the most likely reason for the addition of a new barbarian unit - Firaxis may have decided to differentiate them by the continental tile-set. The American continent might see these guys, Europe might see the tried and true Brute, etc.
seasnake
Conquistador
Or maybe it's a new unit type, an axeman? And just as you have barb archers, spearmen, pikemen, etc. spawned by barb camps, it spawned an axeman?
The devs said they looked at completing unit chains when they talked up the XCOM unit, its possible they've filled out a few of the unit chains throughout the whole game. So now their's an early axeman that upgrades to a maceman, etc.
I don't think they'd show a special new UU as a barb, because that seems misleading, but they would introduce a new general unit that way.
The devs said they looked at completing unit chains when they talked up the XCOM unit, its possible they've filled out a few of the unit chains throughout the whole game. So now their's an early axeman that upgrades to a maceman, etc.
I don't think they'd show a special new UU as a barb, because that seems misleading, but they would introduce a new general unit that way.
ehecatzin
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Messages
- 1,862
@ferretbackon--
Thats also a possibility, it sure would be nice for inmersion on Terra maps.
Maybe there's a chance they are working on culture unit graphics as well (hopefully),I dont think they have shown normal units, only UU's, great people and trade units.
Thats also a possibility, it sure would be nice for inmersion on Terra maps.
Maybe there's a chance they are working on culture unit graphics as well (hopefully),I dont think they have shown normal units, only UU's, great people and trade units.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 18,949
As was stated before, the problem with the generic unit theory is that it looks too culture specific. It looks Native American. It does not look generic. Even the icon is a tomahawk.
Similar threads
