Of course, Kerry is right...

Bozo Erectus said:
These days a highschool diploma in this country isnt worth the paper its written on. You can have a highschool diploma, and read at a third grade level. The days when having a highschool diploma certified that a person had a certain level of education are looooong gone.
And yet some people still don't get them.

On topic, John had proven that the avg person in the military is more educated when joining then the avg person in the US is at the age of 18 (still true at the age of 30). Saying that the standard is low to get a high school diploma does nothing to counter the point.

What do you cite to show that only dumb people join the military? Or a lower % then the avg person?
 
spankey said:
So how are you measuring intelligence and academic achievement then? By any measure they stack up well against their civilian peer group. Don't besmirch the only statistic that is easily tracked because you want to insist that being in the military is defacto proof for a lack of intelligence....
Read the thread spankey, Ive said no such thing.

Ask any college professor how meaningful a highschool diploma is. In the past a highschool diploma meant that at the very least, a person could read and write at a certain minimum adult level, thats no longer the case.
 
It doesn't matter if he was right or wrong...

He called a large portion of the American society stupid right before an election. Thats not exactly smart on his part whether they are stupid or not.

He basically just handed the Republicans an extra million or so votes...
 
woody60707 said:
What do you cite to show that only dumb people join the military?
When I state that only dumb people join the military I'll cite something.
 
Why would the military want stupid grunts when the level of technology used is light years beyond what joe average uses?
 
skadistic said:
Why would the military want stupid grunts when the level of technology used is light years beyond what joe average uses?
The military has always been good at taking 'Joe Average' and training him to do things he never could or would have as a civilian.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
When I state that only dumb people join the military I'll cite something.
Bozo: your right you didn't say that, but i edit my post a sec(maybe 3) after i posted to add this "Or a lower % then the avg person?"

Could you cite why you believe this? Unless you are saying something i am not getting.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
The military has always been good at taking 'Joe Average' and training him to do things he never could or would have as a civilian.
But its cheaper and more effective to start with a higher level stock. In fact the military wants the smartest people it can get and thats why it has rather high standards of acceptence. (those standards have been slightly lowered as of late but still remain high)
 
woody60707 said:
Bozo: your right you didn't say that, but i edit my post a sec(maybe 3) after i posted to add this "Or a lower % then the avg person?"

Could you cite why you believe this? Unless you are saying something i am not getting.

Like I said earlier in the thread, Ive known several people over the years who joined the military, and none of them did it because they had such a strong patriotic calling to serve. They did it either because they saw it as their immediate ticket out of pressing financial problems, or their key to getting an education that was otherwise out of their reach, or a combination. Again, I know that many do join for patriotic reasons, I just dont believe that most do. BTW, Im sure that patriotism plays some factor even in those who join for economicor educational reasons, but its by no means their primary motivation. Plenty of people are patriotic and would never dream of joining the military.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Does anyone actually dispute the fact that for the most part, people with the most educational opportunities are less likely to join the military?
If that's what he said, there wouldn't have been a problem.

The next day, he could have stated something like, "I misspoke, and I apoloize for that. What I meant was that getting an education opens up more opportunites for young people... including military service if they so choose. Without an education, one's opportunities are more limited." If he'd said that, his critics wouldn't have had a leg to stand on, and he might well have garnered support for Democratic candidates next week.

Instead, his words fed the perception (true or false) that Democratic leaders consider people who join the military to be nothing but poor, dumb kids with no alternative but to place themselves into indetured servitude. He refused to apologize, instead attacking people who already mistrusted him. And finally, apparently after some Democrats realized he was a political liability a week before an election, he issued a near-apology.

I don't know if his words and actions will have any effect on the election, but I think it certainly might motivate some GOP-leaning individuals to go out and vote, who might otherwise have stayed at home due to dissatisfaction with Republican policies. In a close race, that might make a difference.

Bozo Erectus said:
They did it either because they saw it as their immediate ticket out of pressing financial problems, or their key to getting an education that was otherwise out of their reach, or a combination.
And do they consider that as a positive opportunity, or as getting "stuck" with a negative situation as some believe Kerry implied?
 
skadistic said:
But its cheaper and more effective to start with a higher level stock. In fact the military wants the smartest people it can get and thats why it has rather high standards of acceptence. (those standards have been slightly lowered as of late but still remain high)
I know, I took the Asvab, when I was a kid, I wanted to join for much the same reasons Ive mentioned here. Unfortunately my defective knees ended my glorious military career before it even began:sad:

Of course the military has standards, they dont take just anybody, not even McDonalds takes just anybody. All Im saying is that if youre a poor kid at the bottom rung of the economic ladder, getting into the military is going to be alot easier than getting into a good college.

The military educates people and provides them with future career opportunities that in most cases they never would have had access to. Is it suddenly patriotic to say that this is untrue? :confused:
 
malclave said:
If that's what he said, there wouldn't have been a problem.

The next day, he could have stated something like, "I misspoke, and I apoloize for that. What I meant was that getting an education opens up more opportunites for young people... including military service if they so choose. Without an education, one's opportunities are more limited." If he'd said that, his critics wouldn't have had a leg to stand on, and he might well have garnered support for Democratic candidates next week.
Its true, he didnt say that. What Ive done here is to try and interpret and expand on his 'botched joke'. BTW, the idea that his dumb comment will affect how people vote next week is nonsensical to me. What does an offhand comment from Kerry have to do with Joe Blows campaign in Peoria?

Instead, his words fed the perception (true or false) that Democratic leaders consider people who join the military to be nothing but poor, dumb kids with no alternative but to place themselves into indetured servitude.
I wouldnt put it in quite those words, but I agree with the statement: The poor go fight, the rich stay home and get a tax cut.

I don't know if his words and actions will have any effect on the election, but I think it certainly might motivate some GOP-leaning individuals to go out and vote, who might otherwise have stayed at home due to dissatisfaction with Republican policies. In a close race, that might make a difference.
Possibly, but I dont think it'll have much of an effect on the overall results next week.
And do they consider that as a positive opportunity, or as getting "stuck" with a negative situation as some believe Kerry implied?
The latest one is the only one who joined during a war. I think he's still over in Italy training as a paratrooper. I'll see when he gets back how he felt about being 'stuck in Iraq'.
 
the people that i know that have went into the military were fairly uneducated(perhaps undereducated is a better term) and didn't have a whole lot of opportunities. Sure they may be able to get a college degree while in the service, but had they not joined their options were limited to low paying factory jobs. I imagine if college in the US was free there would be half the recruits.

of course that's just my observation for what it's worth
 
Actually, I was in college, in my 2nd year when I joined the Army. It wasnt because of money, nor was it my only option. I did it mostly because I was just bored of my life and wanted to get away from NE Arkansas. I just needed and desired a drastic change...and oh boy, did I get it.
 
Oh my God are you serious? You actually believe that insulting statement to be ok? Man. If I joined the military and dedicate myself to it, id be pretty pissed if some Senater questioned my intelligence or motives. But thats me.
 
The man mis-spoke. That's all.

He should have realized he mis-spoke sooner, but he didn't mean anything by it. It was a stupid joke to try and say anyway, but the way it came out apparently wasn't how he meant it.

(I can't stand the guy and I'm sticking up for him! :crazyeye: )

Bozo Erectus said:
How Kerry ever got elected to anything is a complete mystery to me. He's like driftwood with hair. Somebody should go to the district he represents and poke one of the voters with a hat pin to see if blood or eiderdown comes out.

He generally runs unopposed, I believe. And I'd love to try out your little experiment next time I'm home.
 
MobBoss said:
Question: If the democrats bomb next week and dont win either the house or the senate, will they blame Kerry?
Don't you mean 'when?'

And the answer, of course, is yes. Among many, many other things.
 
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