Of Sodom and Gomorrah

[Aroddo]

God is omniscient, God is omnipresent, God is good.
The following video must not change your perception of God. As described above.
Else hellfire.
<snip>

Moderator Action: Video containing inappropriate language removed.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[timtofly]

Why would it change my perception of God?

 

[Aroddo]

ah yes, i didn't account for people with an already bad opinion of god. corrected.

 

[El_Machinae]

I don't have a bad opinion of God, I just don't believe in the god described in the Bible

 

[Aroddo]

but ... but ... but ... the bible was written by God!

 

[timtofly]

The Bible has human perception and even opinion of God written in it. I am not sure how this version of human opinion and perception would change my views on the topic.

God told Moses the story. Perhaps Moses questioned God, the same way we question things today.

I have and still do question God!

 

[Berzerker]

now I know why Lot banged his daughters

 

[warpus]

No God of mine would have hair like that.

 

[Narz]

Pretty well done. Although I still think the story of Job is even worse.

 

[Tahuti]

I lolled hard at the video that said.

That said, rejecting religions wholesale because of seemingly morally questionable elements in sacred texts is a typical case of Nirvana fallacy.

 

[Narz]

Nirvana fallacy, I'll have to remember that one, it's very common & I never knew that type of argument had a name.

That said, there are plenty of other reasons to reject religion besides that many of it's stories are horrific.

Simple humanism is a saner choice though making no claims to be perfect. Religion obviously has some benefits in maintaining group solidarity & raising morale, mostly among those who probably never delve too deeply into in or think about the absurd & questionable nature of some of it's myths. I feel though that once you realize how ridiculous these myths are there's no turning back. I can't see how an educated person can "see the light" and become a Christian (except in name only, or as a superficial typical American Christian who has only vague notions of God & Jesus).

 

[Tee Kay]

This is hilarious.

 

[SoupJuice]

My perception changed a few times throughout

 

[Tahuti]

Nirvana fallacy, I'll have to remember that one, it's very common & I never knew that type of argument had a name.

Well, basically, Nirvana fallacy is the belief that something is bad because it isn't perfect. I think faithful generally do not believe Sodom and Gommorrah is a useful tail for providing moral compass. Maybe it was intended as comedy after all?

Religion obviously has some benefits in maintaining group solidarity & raising morale, mostly among those who probably never delve too deeply into in or think about the absurd & questionable nature of some of it's myths. I feel though that once you realize how ridiculous these myths are there's no turning back. I can't see how an educated person can "see the light" and become a Christian.

I actually can easily see it turning that way. Both antitheists and religious fundamentalists take things too literally. It is perhaps noteworthy that few religious believers actually 'practice' the morale of Sodom & Gomorrah.

 

[Aroddo]

Given how the Bible is a mixture of History and ... stuff ... we can assume that Sodom and Gomorrah were somehow destroyed by a meteor shower or something, which would be awe inspiring enough to onlooker, to assume God's hand in it.
The bad mouthing of S&G was likely exactly that - God needed a reason to rain doom upon them, eh?
However, the idea of offering your daughters to be raped to protect some strangers is a weird one.
As is the practice of condoning incest in absence of a wife.

Just in case some of our religious friends here are looking with lustful eyes on their mother, sisters or daugthers: BONE THEM! GOD IS FINE WITH THAT!

 

[Aroddo]

oh fugg .
angered the word nazis.

 

[timtofly]

Given how the Bible is a mixture of History and ... stuff ... we can assume that Sodom and Gomorrah were somehow destroyed by a meteor shower or something, which would be awe inspiring enough to onlooker, to assume God's hand in it.
The bad mouthing of S&G was likely exactly that - God needed a reason to rain doom upon them, eh?
However, the idea of offering your daughters to be raped to protect some strangers is a weird one.
As is the practice of condoning incest in absence of a wife.

Just in case some of our religious friends here are looking with lustful eyes on their mother, sisters or daugthers: GOD IS FINE WITH THAT!

I am not sure why you think that God is fine with incest and sex trade. Lot was a righteous man who turned bad. The only reason God attempted to rescue him and what was left of his family is because Lot was Abraham's nephew. Just because God allowed Lot to live does not mean that he condones such behavior.

Lot was the only redeemable quality left in Sodom and yet his life was a miserable failure. God still allowed his two illegitimate sons to become two large people groups who settled in Palestine. These people ended up being no better than the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah. If any thing, it shows that God allows second chances and is merciful. It has nothing to do with condoning what any religion would consider immoral or not. There are humans today that consider taking any human life as immoral. If one considers humanism more just than God, why is abortion allowed? It is God who gives life and takes it away. Why do humanist believe pre-empting life is moral behavior?

If these stories were just moral stories told by the religion we call Judaism, it would paint Judaism in a bad light. These were actual humans that lived and were contemporaries of the Hebrews. The stories may have points related to an ideal, but they were actual happenings and effected the people of that time period.

 

[warpus]

Well, basically, Nirvana fallacy is the belief that something is bad because it isn't perfect.

I am not so sure the Nirvana fallacy applies here.

The nirvana fallacy is the informal fallacy of comparing actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives. It can also refer to the tendency to assume that there is a perfect solution to a particular problem. A closely related concept is the perfect solution fallacy.

By creating a false dichotomy that presents one option which is obviously advantageous—while at the same time being completely implausible—a person using the nirvana fallacy can attack any opposing idea because it is imperfect. Under this fallacy, the choice is not between real world solutions; it is, rather, a choice between one realistic achievable possibility and another improbable solution that could in some way be better.

Nobody's saying that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah isn't a good story because it isn't perfect. Most people seem to be saying it's just a stupid story.

 

[classical_hero]

I don't have a bad opinion of God, I just don't believe in the god described in the Bible

You mean the one who spares the righteous from judgement and judges the guilty.

 

[El_Machinae]

Nope, I don't believe in that type of god either.