Off Topic - NWN, Dragon Age (and other RPG) discussion be here

[lordrune]

Hehe, here comes the hater!!!

I mean, seriously. NwN2 is mostly terrible in terms of Dungeon/story building, ask any proficient dungeon master. Dragon Age is mediocre, because it has all events prescripted. It's nice with all those options and stuff, animators and script writers did a good job, but they are the same any time you play with a character through a specific route.

When you find a computer RPG where it creates a genuinely new experience every time (as opposed to a 'random' experience where the locations all end up with an identical feel to them ala Daggerfall), or replicates the intelligence and creativity of a good human dungeon master, let us know.

 

[Deon]

Dwarf Fortress .

 

[civ_king]

Dwarf Fortress .

I wish DF had more modern style graphics, say civ 1 style graphics?

 

[Deon]

You can do it. Or use Stonesense. I don't need it.

More on topic: about nwn2 and "When you find a computer RPG where it creates a genuinely new experience every time", I meant that NwN 1 had enough tools and lots of community contributions to make almost anything, while NwN2 added nothing to it and was even worse in graphics in some occasions. Which was weird. I at least expected more advanced scripting and more freedom in Construction Set.

Oh well .

 

[AvataroftheAnge]

nwn2 was a terrible stain on the RPG genre and a disgrace to Neverwinter. I loved nwn1 so much. Nwn2 was nothing of its predecessor... a complete disappointment.

 

[KrugSmash]

Nwn 1 was pretty much my first online game, I played on one of the custom servers for many months before I got into WoW. I wish I could remember the name of the server, but that was quite a while ago. I had an amazing monk character, something like 19 rogue, 1 shadowdancer, 20 monk. Was untouchable.

 

[Ahwaric]

nwn2 was a terrible stain on the RPG genre and a disgrace to Neverwinter. I loved nwn1 so much. Nwn2 was nothing of its predecessor... a complete disappointment.

I could not disagree more.
NWN1 base campaign was terrible. SotU was fine, and HotU was just ok.
NWN2 base campaign was at least as good as SotU. MotB was the best cRPG experience I had in years, if not ever. SoZ is weird, but I still have to finish it one day.

I agree that NWN2 editor is hard to use compared to NWN1, but I did not really use it enough to say something more. Still, I could use it fine. But compared to current state of the Dragon Age editor, it is a piece of art

Speaking of Dragon Age, now that I have finished it, I can give some feedback.
The story if great, if somewhat cliche... But I like it still, and the compainions and side quests are fun. Not much go there, kill xx monsters and come back type of quests. Well, I hate certain song singer acting (the song itself is fine), but that stuff happens.

Regarding stuff more related to what we can use, I really like the dwarven society. Not exactly one I would like to live in, but belivable, consequent and it fits the dwarves. It has a distant feel of the one from the Witcher series, but is nicely expanded and is something new and worth thinking on. So, arete or caste system?
Talking of the Witcher, elves are simply taken from it - with only little changes. There are some twists (immortality thing) - interesting but not that great.

The thing I dislike the most, is that the world is nowhere as rich and diverse as D&D and Warhammer settings. I know, it is made for just one game, but I really hate the thing that if I am fighting something, if it is not a person, animal or darkspawn, it is a demon. Undead? Demon... Treant? Demon... Vampires? Demons... Strange, blighted animal? Demon... - and so on. I really like necromancers being different sort of evil than demons, and even than vampires.

Darkspawn are interesting and twisted idea. I like it - if anyone can like such thing. I might want to add something of this sort one day... A disease, twisting and corrupting everything - but of different source than demons & undead infestations.

 

[Valkrionn]

I like their Dwarves too... Was contemplating giving the Khazad a boost towards Caste system, with Luchuirp pushed away (Surfacers).

 

[Deon]

The problem with NWN is that it was supposed to be a dungeon constructor for online battles and campaigns, at least that's what we, DnD fans, expected from it. The original campaign was more like a preview of CS possibilities. Also I'd say that SoTU was worse than original campaign because it was too long in many places.
Anyway NWN is the only game where people really succeeded to create at least one good PvP and RP friendly server with everything you want from online game (different playstyles for each class, dynamic quests, pet system, personal housing, territory conquest, capture-the-regal (like CTF), secret factions and their HQs), and everything was in the lore of the world. Oh well.

They decided not to go this way with NWN2.

P.S. Also if you own NWN, you own a lot of cool player-made campaigns. Curse Levor was really good in many aspects (although sometimes buggy) and there were a lot more. I don't see a lot of cool modules for NWN2.

 

[Wauthan]

Well that's it and that's that. Just put DA:O on the shelf next to NWN2, Fallout 3 and Mass Effect. Sort of sad in a way. I played Planescape: Torment and BG2 for years but these days I haven't encountered a single RPG that makes me want to replay it. Guess I got spoiled as a "kid" when it comes to good crpg stories. Actually had to force myself to play DA:O to the finish.

Things I learned from DA:O
Anyone with even a hint of magic in their blood will, if left unsupervised, screw things up in a major way.
Dwarves, in spite of being a bunch bigoted fascists with a collective diplomatic ability on par with that of a single drunk baboon, are a surprisingly rich source of memorable human interest stories.
Elves without the usual elfishness are somehow even more annoying.
A darkspawn is somewhat like an orc, only without the charisma.

 

[Imuratep]

I like the Dwarves. As they really feel different from humans. The caste system, the worship of their ancestors instead of gods, their different look (did you see their noses) all that feels like someone had thought about how he could create a dwarven society that fits the known image but still brings something new.
Elves on the other hand are somehow boring in DA as I don't see a big difference between them and human culture. The Dalish are a bit different, but the city elves... if you could not see their ears you could not tell them apart from humans.

I will replay dragon age several times as I enjoy RPGs as a tactical challenge not only because of their story. Certainly the first time you play it is the most interesting, but for me it's a lot of fun to try out the unused classes. A blood mage plays a lot different from everything I played before as you can cast your spells again and again during combat if you manage to switch back from Hitpoints-casting to Mana-casting at the right point.

What I really dislike are the sex scenes. Not because I consider them offensive (we see sexscenes in most hollywood films, so why not in a PC game), but because they look ridiculous. If they can't manage to let it look right they should leave it out of the game. I must admit that I have only seen the Zavren sex scene, so the others could be different.

 

[Valkrionn]

Honestly, I'm tempted to make the Khazad more like the DA:O Dwarves.

 

[A Golden Dragon]

i would like that ^^

im going on my third run through the game, and can't till the expansion pack

 

[Wauthan]

Aw nuts! Just got a copy of Mass Effect 2. Man, Bioware really knows how to keep me busy. Oddly enough the sequel doesn't have the same strength in it's pull though. Possibly because of the nuke-the-fridge opening. Cripes! Don't people do subtle anymore? Personally I put the blame on anime. Next we know Ahwaric will make all the units scream the wierd name of their attacks before they actually attack.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Playing DA:O on my weekends. Nearing my first playthrough as a Human Noble, which has been as much about unlocking things and getting the hang of others as being painfully pleasant and nice. I'm not bothering with side quests at this point.

Next playthrough, I'm taking a City Elf, and I am going to role play, damn it! Extremely cynical, shaped in reaction to life as the underclass. A few main rules will govern her:


First, No Human Sacrifice. Never let it be demanded, never let it be tolerated. Any act of sacrifice of life and person, done by one to another for power, for life, for knowledge, will be punished accordingly. This includes slavery and possession. The Alienage taught many things, but the worth was when individuals were traded and used for others advancement.

Second, The Strong Will Not Harm The Weak. Rank and riches will not protect anyone from their crimes. Attempting to do so will only increase the punishment.

Third, You Will Be Held Responsible For Your Crimes. Those who will work for atonement may be given the chance, but no one will be let free.

Fourth: Live, but not at the cost of the above rules. A life lived without laws is meaningless. Laws protect us, and each other. But it is every person's responsiblity to survive, to live, even if they are not happy with their current lot.



One thing I've noticed about the Dragon Age is that all the Origins seem better as a female rather than male. It always fits better, in my mind, and they often have the best non-companion companions. Cullen and Amell, the city elf being kidnapped on her wedding time, the Dwarf Noblewoman and her Second, the Human Noblewoman and her quest from vengance to the throne itself. So much better than the male alternatives. (Of course, I've read some darn good DA:O fanfics with various female origins.)

 

[Wauthan]

One thing I've noticed about the Dragon Age is that all the Origins seem better as a female rather than male.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Same thing in ME2 really. "Femshep" feels more interesting then her male counterpart somehow. Though it's possibly just that male protagonists have been done to death in roleplaying games. Sort of mindboggling that even in 2010 a charismatic woman in the lead feels like a novel approach.

It might just be me, but the best voiceactors in the CRPG business seem to be all women. The guys tend to come across as "generic archetype". Perhaps women still have less clichés to get stuck in?

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Possible, I suppose, though I'd disagree about Femshep. The name, job, of shepherd has far too much historical male connotations for me to naturally perceive 'Shepherd' as a female.

Not saying it doesn't work, and the ME1 Alenko was probably one of the more emotionally balanced, reasonable, and sane love interests of any media I've seen in a while, but it doesn't jump at me the way the more gender-neutral last names of DA:O work. (Or female: Amell definitely has a female tone.)

Of course, I have another reason that biases me: in ME2, can't get any Tali-lovin as Femshep.

 

[Opera]

Actually, I didn't feel much that the Dragon Age's character was more fitting as a female rather than as a male. I'm a bit confused here

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Actually, I didn't feel much that the Dragon Age's character was more fitting as a female rather than as a male. I'm a bit confused here

Well for some, I can't imagine anything else. City elf, for example. Kidnapped to be raped in your own wedding gown? That's good dark fantasy.

Female mageling was mandated by Cullen.

For others, I was sold by Origin Romances.

 

[Opera]

Well, for some reasons, I can't imagine anything but a male for the Dwarf Noble origin.
Really, it's all about subjective-ness