adamschroeder
Chieftain
nope you can't rush build a palace.
Official Corruption Solutions Thread
- Thread starter Lefty Scaevola
- Start date
Il Mafioso
Chieftain
And now for the $1 Million questions:
1. Did you rush a HARBOR in every coastal city in the new continent?
2. Were all the cities on the new continent well connected by roads?
3. Were you doing everything necessary to push the cities into WLTK mode (including taking workers off the fields and making them entertainers to prevent growth beyon WLTK possibility given infrastructure?)
4. Were you at least in the mid to late 1800s?
Alessandro
Il Mafioso
Chieftain
There's a flaw in your logic.
In my experience, being well connected to your other big cities (this means a harbor if overseas) AND celebrating WLTK *IS* the key to kicking corruption in the butt.
The things you mention all increase happyness, and WLTK is the highest level of happyness.
So, some may be frustrated that building a temple is not ENOUGH to immediatelly eliminate waste, but the key is that you SHOULD build ALL the improvements you can that affect happyness, plus raise the luxury rate, plus station troops in the city etc. etc. etc.
I guess I wasn't clear - but yes, that was my point.
Some people had been saying that happiness directly affected corruption and waste, and I tested that and found it to be false, so (just in regards to corruption - obviously there are other benefits, like a lack of unrest) happiness is only beneficial if you can push it far enought to get you a WLTK day.
More specifically as far as this will affect me at least:
While I'll always (and always have) build all the happiness modifiers in every city (temple, colloseum, marketplace, cathedral), I won't change citizens to entertainers or increase my luxury rate (decrease science/tax rate) unless it will be enough to kick a city/cities into WLTK day because it's just a waste of potential production/income/science.
Another interesting thing you raised:
You're saying that a well connected city is less affected by corruption. I haven't run tests on this, but basically you're saying that if I took a city and ripped up the roads connecting it to my empire (compensating for the loss of luxuries somehow so that I'm still neither in unrest nor WLTK day), trashed the airport, and sold the harbor, that there would be more corruption?
That makes perfect sense to me. A city xxx miles from the capital should be more affected by it if there are roads or rails connecting the two. I don't see this being a major issue in Civ 3 though as everyone always connects all of their cities anyway so that they can benefit from resources and luxuries.
Some people had been saying that happiness directly affected corruption and waste, and I tested that and found it to be false, so (just in regards to corruption - obviously there are other benefits, like a lack of unrest) happiness is only beneficial if you can push it far enought to get you a WLTK day.
More specifically as far as this will affect me at least:
While I'll always (and always have) build all the happiness modifiers in every city (temple, colloseum, marketplace, cathedral), I won't change citizens to entertainers or increase my luxury rate (decrease science/tax rate) unless it will be enough to kick a city/cities into WLTK day because it's just a waste of potential production/income/science.
Another interesting thing you raised:
You're saying that a well connected city is less affected by corruption. I haven't run tests on this, but basically you're saying that if I took a city and ripped up the roads connecting it to my empire (compensating for the loss of luxuries somehow so that I'm still neither in unrest nor WLTK day), trashed the airport, and sold the harbor, that there would be more corruption?
That makes perfect sense to me. A city xxx miles from the capital should be more affected by it if there are roads or rails connecting the two. I don't see this being a major issue in Civ 3 though as everyone always connects all of their cities anyway so that they can benefit from resources and luxuries.
I usually play militaristic civilisation for this reason. Militaristic civilisations easier produce leaders, and when conquering foreign continents with large cities, I make sure to bring elite troops (veterans if elites are N/A). In notime a great leader 
will spawn, and he rush builds the forbidden palace in a strategically located city on the other continent. Problem (partially) solved.
/Regards Kayser
will spawn, and he rush builds the forbidden palace in a strategically located city on the other continent. Problem (partially) solved./Regards Kayser
argolite
Chieftain
Here's the answer. Open the Civ3Mod.bic file in the civ3 editor, and follow these steps:
1) Go to Tools menu option, and deselect default rules. This will enable you to see all the rules.
2) Go to Rules->Edit->World Sizes. Then click the World Sizes tab. Tada! You can now view that corruption information. In fact, you can modify it too. The key box here is the "Optimal Number of Cities (corruption)"
3) For the changes to take effect for all games, save the civ3mod file you just modified. You can read up on the subject in the help files.
I changed the optimal number for all my maps from the meager 8, or 32 to 999
. Then I loaded one of the games where corruption was driving me nuts, let a turn pass, and saw my corruption levels plummet. No more 99% corruption rates.Hope this helps.
Mike
Elfi Wolfe
Chieftain
The way corruption works is one of the biggest changes from Civ2, so I am not surprised that people are having difficulties adjusting. Under this new system, you cannot control ever city in the world and expect them to still function. Thus, it takes a slightly different approach than Civ2 (or Civ1 or SMAC) required. Simply put, more cities is not always better.
There are two factors affecting corruption levels:
distance from capital (like Civ2), and
number of cities (unlike Civ2).
You can fight the distance factor by:
moving your capital to a more optimal location
building a Courthouse in the city
building a Forbidden Palace near your corrupt cities
switching to a less-corrupt government type
being connected to your capital via road/harbor/airport
putting your city in "We Love the King Day" (works for shields only...)
You can fight the number of cities factor by:
lowering the difficulty level
building a Courthouse in the city
building a Forbidden Palace in any city
playing a civilization with the Commercial bonus
switching to a less-corrupt government type
putting your city in "We Love the King Day" (works for shields only...)
and finally...
emphasize building a few great cities instead of a bunch of puny ones
There are two factors affecting corruption levels:
distance from capital (like Civ2), and
number of cities (unlike Civ2).
You can fight the distance factor by:
moving your capital to a more optimal location
building a Courthouse in the city
building a Forbidden Palace near your corrupt cities
switching to a less-corrupt government type
being connected to your capital via road/harbor/airport
putting your city in "We Love the King Day" (works for shields only...)
You can fight the number of cities factor by:
lowering the difficulty level
building a Courthouse in the city
building a Forbidden Palace in any city
playing a civilization with the Commercial bonus
switching to a less-corrupt government type
putting your city in "We Love the King Day" (works for shields only...)
and finally...
emphasize building a few great cities instead of a bunch of puny ones
AWAD
Chieftain
So far it seems that corruption was a good idea, not well implemented. What about island kingdoms? Those type nations would be impossible to play. Distances are usally large, plus a harbor would be needed in most cities. So you are screwed (like me in my current game.) Also I like to win in various ways, current system makes it hard to enjoy a military victory. Also as a note it seems to stop the computer also. I have played 4 times, (and got stomped) and never saw one Comp Civ take out another Comp Civ. I think the computer has problems handeling the Corruption. So I think they need to give a new bar, anti- corruption. This takes away from science, taxes, happines but allows for full production to happen. Call it beauracracy. They are making sure all the cities are working effeciently. When you make improvements you will not need to have this set so high.
Another post said Civ II of empire did not affect corruption. That is true but it did affect happiness.
AWAD- who is a little dismayed with the huge Corruption problem
Another post said Civ II of empire did not affect corruption. That is true but it did affect happiness.
AWAD- who is a little dismayed with the huge Corruption problem
one thing that they (fraxis) could do is add more small wonders... the forbidden palace could be considered an acient wonder so they should of had some more "modern" wonders, such as a supreme court for example, which could have the same or at least similar effect as a forbidden city...
It seems that whenever I've played on a large map with the maximum number of civs(12) , corruption was reasonable since I usually didn't hold that much of the planet. At the end of the game, I held about a fifth of the planet which was enough to win the space race, but didn't find corruption overwhelming
On the smaller map, since I held a much larger chunk (proportionally) of the planet right from the beginning, I found the corruption to be completely crippling. The game wasn't much fun as I had a few functional cities, but most of them had one shield of production. I personally think this is a bug in the game that will be addressed in the first patch. In the meantime, modifying the rules helps a lot.
On the smaller map, since I held a much larger chunk (proportionally) of the planet right from the beginning, I found the corruption to be completely crippling. The game wasn't much fun as I had a few functional cities, but most of them had one shield of production. I personally think this is a bug in the game that will be addressed in the first patch. In the meantime, modifying the rules helps a lot.
History_Buff
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2001
- Messages
- 6,529
I just had an idea, although I don't get civ3 till the 19th, so forgive any possible things I overlooked.
1. Yes, (forgive me here) couldn't we all just edit the rules and shut up and live on the HUG map I saw earlier( great responce sarcasto)
2. This may be wrong: All of you seem to complain that your overseas colonies are completely corrupt. Could this be because your cities are not connected to the chunk of land inside your borders you capital is on?
1. Yes, (forgive me here) couldn't we all just edit the rules and shut up and live on the HUG map I saw earlier( great responce sarcasto)
2. This may be wrong: All of you seem to complain that your overseas colonies are completely corrupt. Could this be because your cities are not connected to the chunk of land inside your borders you capital is on?
nostromo80130
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2001
- Messages
- 1
Corruption... good idea. Enormouse corruption in the early days... makes sense. The Mongol empire was famouse for and possibly collapsed due to corruption endemic to ruling a wide spread emipre.
However...
Curruption dropped off with newer and newer techs and later and later ages. It is difficult to imagine that with today's technology an empire could not span the earth while maintaining acceptable levles of corruption, much lesser than those in CIV III. Basically the world is getting smaller and it started so, eith the first telegraphs and perhaps even prior to that. The British spanned the globe and colonies only really started costing them monbey due to nationalist fervor, not due to inherent corruption.
This departure from realism is perhaps the only thing that annoys me in the game. But it annoys me horribly. A mod that tunes down corruption with ages, or techs like electricity for instance would be I think the most interesting solution.
As for now I am turned off the game. Challange is great but its not an end in itself; fun is. For instance I have no reason to fight wars other than genocidal wars because taking cities is silly.
And a whole bunch of toher things are out the window... basically I end up taking all of Africa as the ZUlus and then just sitting there trying to beat my opponents to the space techs... something that seems ver difficult on regent.
A far cry solution to that would be to somehow set up a victory without permanenet take over kinda thing. Like WWII for instance where sooner or later the losers were permitted self-govt.... after a proper amount of reconditioning.
Oh well...
However...
Curruption dropped off with newer and newer techs and later and later ages. It is difficult to imagine that with today's technology an empire could not span the earth while maintaining acceptable levles of corruption, much lesser than those in CIV III. Basically the world is getting smaller and it started so, eith the first telegraphs and perhaps even prior to that. The British spanned the globe and colonies only really started costing them monbey due to nationalist fervor, not due to inherent corruption.
This departure from realism is perhaps the only thing that annoys me in the game. But it annoys me horribly. A mod that tunes down corruption with ages, or techs like electricity for instance would be I think the most interesting solution.
As for now I am turned off the game. Challange is great but its not an end in itself; fun is. For instance I have no reason to fight wars other than genocidal wars because taking cities is silly.
And a whole bunch of toher things are out the window... basically I end up taking all of Africa as the ZUlus and then just sitting there trying to beat my opponents to the space techs... something that seems ver difficult on regent.
A far cry solution to that would be to somehow set up a victory without permanenet take over kinda thing. Like WWII for instance where sooner or later the losers were permitted self-govt.... after a proper amount of reconditioning.
Oh well...
Jonathan
Prince
"The British spanned the globe and colonies only really started costing them money due to nationalist fervor, not due to inherent corruption."
I agree, but the British Empire is no more. It's a pity the game doesn't properly model the "nationalist fervor" that put an end to it.
"The Americans" (capital Washington, leader Lincoln) are rather absurdly included in the game from 4000 BC although in reality no such tribe existed until 1776 AD. Notice that the game provides no mechanism for the USA to come into existence in 1776 (or at any other time).
The emergence of new civilizations by the breakup of old ones is a missing factor that could well be considered for Civ 4.
I agree, but the British Empire is no more. It's a pity the game doesn't properly model the "nationalist fervor" that put an end to it.
"The Americans" (capital Washington, leader Lincoln) are rather absurdly included in the game from 4000 BC although in reality no such tribe existed until 1776 AD. Notice that the game provides no mechanism for the USA to come into existence in 1776 (or at any other time).
The emergence of new civilizations by the breakup of old ones is a missing factor that could well be considered for Civ 4.
rubble: The Supreme court is a great idea, why don't you post it to firaxis.
The only thing about it I think is unrealistic is that you wouldn't probably place the supreme court on another continent than the one with your capital. Hmmm... Maybe something that goes along with "printing press" would do.
/Kayser
The only thing about it I think is unrealistic is that you wouldn't probably place the supreme court on another continent than the one with your capital. Hmmm... Maybe something that goes along with "printing press" would do.
/Kayser
BurnPoodle
Chieftain
Civilization III is really different from II... and the biggest difference (that I think of...) is that you doesn't need in civilization III to build a HUGE empire... Often, you will have to count more on building less very good cities than building a hundreds of bad ones or that are slow at producing... that way, you will be able to have a lot of culture and at the same time, you won't have corruption problems.
For sure, some maps are good for building big empires, but habitually, I think you should build like 10-12 cities max on small maps and keep them very good rather that having the map spread with bad cities...
That's my opinion for corruption... ;c)
For sure, some maps are good for building big empires, but habitually, I think you should build like 10-12 cities max on small maps and keep them very good rather that having the map spread with bad cities...
That's my opinion for corruption... ;c)
Neo Guderian
Panzerarmee General
This belongs on the ideas forum but what the heck.
I agree with a proposal for putting in a 'governance' slider and perhaps bringing in some sort of govermental things such as provincial capitals, agencies(or even special units like actually building FBI units that reduce a percentage of corruption for per unit.) of course that would be a tangent but this is a brainstorm. the best solution i think would be to incorporate an automatic anticorruption/waste mechanism based upon technology levels, cultural levels and such.
Some fellow programers and myself are disapointed with civ3 in general and are thinking about just making our own 'civ' type game for our personal gaming pleasure.
or start playing civ2 again
I agree with a proposal for putting in a 'governance' slider and perhaps bringing in some sort of govermental things such as provincial capitals, agencies(or even special units like actually building FBI units that reduce a percentage of corruption for per unit.) of course that would be a tangent but this is a brainstorm. the best solution i think would be to incorporate an automatic anticorruption/waste mechanism based upon technology levels, cultural levels and such.
Some fellow programers and myself are disapointed with civ3 in general and are thinking about just making our own 'civ' type game for our personal gaming pleasure.
or start playing civ2 again
I've always have a militiristic/expansionist bent in Civ2 and still want to play that way in Civ3. Obviously the new corruption system in place is designed to make conquest much harder by making your newly aquired cities next to useless.
Obviously, the Forbidden Palace is a must. Whether you build it and move your Palace isn't a big deal, just make sure the two are spread apart. You'll have an "8" shaped or barbell shaped empire with the Palaces in the center. FP in capitol of vanquished Civ is a good spot. With this you can support well over 30 cities without corruption being a huge headache.
For a domination victory where your FP is already placed, you'll just have to live with the fact that the cities you capture will be useless. You can raze them if you like, but I find that any razed city leaves open space, and that space will be gobbled up by a rival Civ in an instant, so you might as well just keep it.
What to do? This isn't a solution as much as an adjustment. I've found with corruption so high after X cities, X distance from capitol no matter what you do, it's really important that your core empire produces optimally. In Civ2 in any one city I rarely had every city improvement built and every tile with maxed improvements since I concentrated so much on conquering and expansion and could get away with it. No more. You have to have every core, non-corrupt city with a Factory, Coal Plant, etc everything to maximize production. Every hill and mountain mined, with some mines in grassland/plains. In Civ2 I rarely had any one city give me 50 shields a turn since I could count on every conquered city giving me incrementally more production power. In Civ3, thanks to corruption robbing outlying cities, I build up my core to the max and have most of my core cities cranking out +50 shields, with some approaching 100. Tanks every two turns in these cities if I need them. I'm still able to crank out the units I need even if several of my outlying cities do squat.
Another way to get the one shield cities going is a technique someone on the Apolyton site calls IFE, or Infinite Forest Exploitation. Perhaps a bit of a cheat the designers never intended, but the idea is to take a hoard of workers and have them just plant forest->chop forest->plant forest->chop forest, endlessly to get those 10 shields per chopped forest in the corruption plagued cities. This is only worthwhile, IMHO, if your workers have already maxed out improvements and are just on pollution patrol late in the game.
e
Obviously, the Forbidden Palace is a must. Whether you build it and move your Palace isn't a big deal, just make sure the two are spread apart. You'll have an "8" shaped or barbell shaped empire with the Palaces in the center. FP in capitol of vanquished Civ is a good spot. With this you can support well over 30 cities without corruption being a huge headache.
For a domination victory where your FP is already placed, you'll just have to live with the fact that the cities you capture will be useless. You can raze them if you like, but I find that any razed city leaves open space, and that space will be gobbled up by a rival Civ in an instant, so you might as well just keep it.
What to do? This isn't a solution as much as an adjustment. I've found with corruption so high after X cities, X distance from capitol no matter what you do, it's really important that your core empire produces optimally. In Civ2 in any one city I rarely had every city improvement built and every tile with maxed improvements since I concentrated so much on conquering and expansion and could get away with it. No more. You have to have every core, non-corrupt city with a Factory, Coal Plant, etc everything to maximize production. Every hill and mountain mined, with some mines in grassland/plains. In Civ2 I rarely had any one city give me 50 shields a turn since I could count on every conquered city giving me incrementally more production power. In Civ3, thanks to corruption robbing outlying cities, I build up my core to the max and have most of my core cities cranking out +50 shields, with some approaching 100. Tanks every two turns in these cities if I need them. I'm still able to crank out the units I need even if several of my outlying cities do squat.
Another way to get the one shield cities going is a technique someone on the Apolyton site calls IFE, or Infinite Forest Exploitation. Perhaps a bit of a cheat the designers never intended, but the idea is to take a hoard of workers and have them just plant forest->chop forest->plant forest->chop forest, endlessly to get those 10 shields per chopped forest in the corruption plagued cities. This is only worthwhile, IMHO, if your workers have already maxed out improvements and are just on pollution patrol late in the game.
e
Corruption is a definite problem and needs to be fixed.
1. Past a certain distance from your capitols (palace and FP), NOTHING prevents total corruption (i.e., 1 shield, 1 coin)
2. WLTKD, courthouse, and Democracy still cannot get those 1 shield, 1 coin cities out of the corruption pit.
3. Only use for 1 shield, 1 coin cities is to be used as
1. Past a certain distance from your capitols (palace and FP), NOTHING prevents total corruption (i.e., 1 shield, 1 coin)
2. WLTKD, courthouse, and Democracy still cannot get those 1 shield, 1 coin cities out of the corruption pit.
3. Only use for 1 shield, 1 coin cities is to be used as
- Culture producers - temples and libraries are a good start, but you have to hurry production at a huge cost in gold or population to get these
- Access to resources - expanded culture boundary gives you access to additional strategic and luxury resources which you do not have to trade fromo the AI
- Map control - with culture boundaries expanding, even at zero production, the AI cannot build there
- Supply bases and staging - use the towns to heal up troops and the rail network to quickly launch major military operations
- Draft military units - you can quickly call up a rather large military force if your 1 shield, 1 coin cities are of sufficient size - this can be used to great effectiveness in launching attacks or defending from AI attacks
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On the whole, I'd rather haxor the rules to up the number of cities which starts massive corruption. It's just totally buggy.
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