Oh, Those Erebusian Women

[Tyrs]

I feel like Balseraph women would be more equal to men, but the lives of both would be degraded equally... It's not that they aren't objectified as much, it's just that everyone is. Imagining a country were first sexual experiences happen in that fashion as the norm blows my mind... suicide rates would be through the roof... Makes sense for a evil civ though

 

[thewyrm]

I feel like Balseraph women would be more equal to men, but the lives of both would be degraded equally... It's not that they aren't objectified as much, it's just that everyone is. Imagining a country were first sexual experiences happen in that fashion as the norm blows my mind... suicide rates would be through the roof... Makes sense for a evil civ though

Possibly. Yet those who survive their early experiences are raised within this culture and would see this as the norm. Imagine how mind bogglingly boring an Elohim party would be to the average Balseraph.

Think about this. A Bannor raid "liberates" a Balseraph city and "rescues" the women from the lecherous ways of the Balseraph culture. How could a Balseraph woman who has lived her entire life believing that not only is pleasure not something to be shunned, it is actually the single most important "virtue" that humanity can strive to exemplify. How could she possibly ever fit in amongst other societies who would try to fix something in her pattern of thought that she doesn't believe was ever wrong.

 

[A_Hamster]

First, I'm assuming that Doviello is four syllables, "Do", "vi", "el", "lo". If I'm mispronouncing it, the scansion will be off.

Second, the scansion is a little awkward in places; the tune is fast and the original lyrics are simple, which does not leave me a lot of wiggle room for new lyrics.

Third, picture Guybrush Threepwood singing this to entertain shipmates or drinking companions. He's a sailor, and they've a girl in every port, so he's pretty knowledgable about the women of Erebus.

And now, without further ado ...

Doviello Girls
(After California Girls, by the Beach Boys.)

Well, Bannor girls are hip,
I dig their metal underwear,
And the Lanun girls with the way they squawk,
They thrill me with the way they swear,

The madcap jester's daughter really makes you burn all night,
And the Dark Elf chicks with their leather bits,
They really do fan-service right.

I wish they all could be Doviello,
I wish they all could be Doviello,
I wish they all could be Doviello,
I wish they all could be Doviello girls.

The tundra has the blizzards,
And the girls all get so bland,
I dig a furry parka on arctic circle dolls by an igloo on the strand.

I sailed all o'er this great big world,
And I seen all kinds of girls,
Yeah, but I couldn't wait to get back on the floes,
Back to the coldest girls in the world.

I wish they all could be Doviello,
I wish they all could be Doviello,
I wish they all could be Doviello girls.

I wish they all could be Doviello,
(girls, girls, girls yeah I dig the)
I wish they all could be Doviello,
(girls, girls, girls yeah I dig the)
I wish they all could be Doviello,
(girls, girls, girls yeah I dig the)
I wish they all could be Doviello,
(girls, girls, girls yeah I dig the)

 

[Ksi]

*Claps loudly* That was amazing.

 

[loocas]

I feel like Balseraph women would be more equal to men, but the lives of both would be degraded equally... It's not that they aren't objectified as much, it's just that everyone is. Imagining a country were first sexual experiences happen in that fashion as the norm blows my mind... suicide rates would be through the roof... Makes sense for a evil civ though

I don't think suicide would be any different if what we're describing is the norm. It's impossible for me to imagine what a victimized girl goes through, but to narrow a delicate subject extremely, social ostracism and damage to identity would be strong factors in her trauma. Considering the Balseraphs and what are normal experiences for a young girl, as well their views of personal identity, I think they'd be ready to accept what happened to them. Of course, that doesn't mean life is easy, but the wine, dancing, and being able to violate other people at will may help them deal with that.

@A_Hamster: You rule.

 

[Kael]

Thats awesome hamster!

 

[KillerClowns]

Congratulations, Hamster. You quite literally made me laugh out loud, and I had struggle to not actually start singing!
I wish they all could be Doviello...
EDIT: "Makes you burn all night." Why do I suspect a fire elemental is involved in making this happen?

 

[wilboman]

Great stuff, hamster! I could just hear the Beach Boys chorus in the background. And Wyrm (and everyone else): love your take on Balseraph women. It's depraved, but it makes sense.

 

[A_Hamster]

Thank you! I'm glad you all enjoyed the filk!

Oh, Loocas, thanks for the inspiration. I was reading the thread, and the thread title just seemed like a song cue. "Erebusian Women ... reminds me of a song ... Ha! California Girls!" Then ideas started falling into place.

Since I was thinking about the Beach Boys after that, I thought about "Help Me, Roanna" about someone trying to hire the Hippus, but Roanna is three syllables, and Rhonda is two, so that won't work. Roanna does scan to "Maria" though ...

Now if you'd like to see and hear the work of a real filker, here's a website that combines the Lovecraft Mythos with ABBA. Some of the lyrics could fit the Sheaim as well as the OO.

Congratulations, Hamster. You quite literally made me laugh out loud, and I had struggle to not actually start singing!
I wish they all could be Doviello...
EDIT: "Makes you burn all night." Why do I suspect a fire elemental is involved in making this happen?

Heh. Isn't innunedo wonderful? "Burn all night" could be a good thing, or it could be a very bad thing, but 'what happens in Jubilee, stays in Jubilee.'

Speaking of innunedo ... "When I'm good, I'm good, but when I'm bad, I'm better." Could be a good line for Faeryl, but again, it may not be what you really want ...

 

[Darksaber1]

Ya, pretty good A Hamster

 

[Broken Hawk]

Think about this. A Bannor raid "liberates" a Balseraph city and "rescues" the women from the lecherous ways of the Balseraph culture.

If I understand the Bannor correctly and, now, the Balseraph as you articulatly explained, I do not think there would be any liberating or rescuing. I envision a Confessor leisurely strolling before the captives and then quickly ordering them put to the sword. Spending a little time trapped in Hell will make you merciless to what you perceive as evil.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Spending a little time trapped in Hell

Only, like, the leaders and the original settler/warrior group did that. By the time the various empires are mature enough to be fighting full wars, there's no way any of the Bannor who actually spent time in hell are still alive.

 

[Mewtarthio]

Only, like, the leaders and the original settler/warrior group did that. By the time the various empires are mature enough to be fighting full wars, there's no way any of the Bannor who actually spent time in hell are still alive.

Donal Lugh? Capria?

 

[smjjames]

Actually, in Donal Lughs entry, by the time he comes out of hell, Capria has aged considerably, in fact the pedia entry says that 70 years had passed. If she was in her 20s, she would have been in her 90s, maybe early hundreds by then, a very old woman. Although apparently pretty fit for a woman that age. Unless she aged slower for some reason.

It's not really clear whether Donal Lugh never aged all that time or he is the same age as Capria, or older.

 

[wilboman]

I envision the original Bannor as somewhat akin to Numenoreans, aging significantly slower than their later (and watered-down) kin.

 

[Rod]

wilboman : I envision the original Bannor as somewhat akin to Numenoreans, aging significantly slower than their later (and watered-down) kin.

In this case the Bannor would be a very racistic society as well, as they would see themselves as superiour, having survived hell and all.

Therefore Bannors 'liberating' a foreign can be imagined in three different ways.

1) The Benigh Colonalism: In this approach the Bannor would see others as inferiour and weak because of mental, physical and educationary underdevelopment. But their conclusion would be that they have to take extra responsibilities for the weak and therefore unite the world under their rule to protect the people from the evil and the hell.
If Bannor would conquer an evil cities they would exterminate all leading people, but they would deliberately spare the common people. Their goal would be to teach the 'Natives' the Bannor way in order to bring them "into the light"

(this would be most similiar with the attitude of the Soviets towards their neighbours (especially their Asian neighours) and of the Colonial Powers in the 19th Century towards the natives in their Colonies)

2) The Islam Way: In this case the Bannor would see themselves as following a superiour way of life and religion (Order). They would conclude that it is their responsibility to spread the (their) truth among the world, but they would use sword and speech to convert newly conquered citizen their course. However the Bannor would also tolerate pockets of other cultures within their borders (as long as the same swear an oath to Bannor and pay taxes).

(The early caliphate of Bagdad is certainly the best example for this kind of state)

3) The Nazi Way: In this interpretation the Bannor would understand themselves as a Master Race thanks to their longetivity and history.
They would therefore forcefully brainwash 'good' and 'neutral' citizen of conquered territory, but merciless extinguish all 'evil' people. They would not distinguish between the nature of a state and its inhabitants. For the Bannor the citizen of evil states are corrupted entirely and can only be cleansed by fire. This is certainly the most extreme interpretation of Bannor Society.

(Nazi Germany or Spain during the time of the Inquisition is the best way to envision this kind of society)

Most probably there might be all three movements present in the Bannor society and all them trying to receive an upper hand in the state and to influence the rulers to follow their philosophy. So Bannor policy might differ from time to time dependent on which movement has the ears of the rulers at a given time.

 

[it-ogo]

That is a nice story. But Doviello society is one of the least misoginistic on Erebus. They wouldn't question a female warrior or a female leader.

Does that mean they would question a female warrior or a female leader in the same way as a male one? Those are very questionable positions.

Suffragist Doviello. Hm... In the case of savage anarchy you can speak about "equal possibilities" from psychological point of view. Those who behave in certain way can become a leader no matter of sex. OK. But what does mean "to behave in certain way" in this case? It means regular fighting for the leadership. And in most cases fighting should not spend best fighters in the pack because if there are always someone is killed or maimed then pack is lost soon. So to be effective leader you should know and feel when to start fighting and when to stop and allow the beaten opponent to keep some respect. Male human instincts provide the feeling of this process. Female human instincts are different: usually female try to avoid fighting whenever possible and when she is forced to fight, she fights to death. That is completely inacceptable for fighting leader. (I don't know about Svartalfar, Drow, Dunmer etc. but Doviello are stated to be humans. No?) So to become a leader of such pack human female should not only be very strong but also go against her instincts. And that would make Doviello female fighting leader extremely rare fenomenon.

Moreover if men concider women as potential fighting leaders they wiil beat women regularly to verify their relative social positions. Nothing personal, just regular hierarchial rotation contest. For the most women (which are occasionally not superior fighters) it means very poor social position and very incomfortable existance. That is why savage anarchy is the worst society for most women. Patriarchal traditions are not only prevent woman to be a leader but also protect her from the violence. A simple thing which if often forgotten.

So one Mahala precedent can be a real disaster for many-many Doviello women.

IMO the very idea of male-female equality (and, accordingly, misogyny as social fenomenon) is a product of the contemporary informational society where men and women are functionally the same. While in more "savage" societies with severe life they are functionally different no matter if it is matriarchy or patriarchy or anarchy. And the function is determined by the biology rather then by the law, tradition and religion.

 

[Ekolite]

In this case the Bannor would be a very racistic society as well, as they would see themselves as superiour, having survived hell and all.

Therefore Bannors 'liberating' a foreign can be imagined in three different ways.

1) The Benigh Colonalism: In this approach the Bannor would see others as inferiour and weak because of mental, physical and educationary underdevelopment. But their conclusion would be that they have to take extra responsibilities for the weak and therefore unite the world under their rule to protect the people from the evil and the hell.
If Bannor would conquer an evil cities they would exterminate all leading people, but they would deliberately spare the common people. Their goal would be to teach the 'Natives' the Bannor way in order to bring them "into the light"

(this would be most similiar with the attitude of the Soviets towards their neighbours (especially their Asian neighours) and of the Colonial Powers in the 19th Century towards the natives in their Colonies)

2) The Islam Way: In this case the Bannor would see themselves as following a superiour way of life and religion (Order). They would conclude that it is their responsibility to spread the (their) truth among the world, but they would use sword and speech to convert newly conquered citizen their course. However the Bannor would also tolerate pockets of other cultures within their borders (as long as the same swear an oath to Bannor and pay taxes).

(The early caliphate of Bagdad is certainly the best example for this kind of state)

3) The Nazi Way: In this interpretation the Bannor would understand themselves as a Master Race thanks to their longetivity and history.
They would therefore forcefully brainwash 'good' and 'neutral' citizen of conquered territory, but merciless extinguish all 'evil' people. They would not distinguish between the nature of a state and its inhabitants. For the Bannor the citizen of evil states are corrupted entirely and can only be cleansed by fire. This is certainly the most extreme interpretation of Bannor Society.

(Nazi Germany or Spain during the time of the Inquisition is the best way to envision this kind of society)

Most probably there might be all three movements present in the Bannor society and all them trying to receive an upper hand in the state and to influence the rulers to follow their philosophy. So Bannor policy might differ from time to time dependent on which movement has the ears of the rulers at a given time.

Number 2 sounds more like the malakim then the bannor.

 

[civ_king]

to address it-ogo, about the doviello i think Kael means that they don't care who their leader is if they bring in killing pillaging and such.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm pretty sure that all pre-Ice Age men would be comparable to the Numenorians in lifespan, intelligence, etc. This isn't entirely because of the Ice Age, as Mankind (and Dwarfkind) has been slowly degenerating from its beginning. The original Bannor who escaped from Hell would probably be genetically at about the level they were at when Bhall fell. Thus, they are a few centuries less degenerated than most men in Erebus. That probably wouldn't mean they would live centuries longer, but they might be physically fit for an extra decade or two. I'd probably guess though that they would still be more degenerated than the Amurites, whose recent descent from the ageless Kyorlin places them several generations closer to Nemed than those who lived just before Bhalls fall.



Don't be confused by the references to "truth" in scenario number 2. Lugus is not the type to condone violence to force others to accept the truth. That scenario is much closer to The Order