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[GS] Ok so what do Rock Bands actually do?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by tiamats4esgares, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    you may consider the Rolling Stones to be relics but they are not by game standards, the simple answer is just to religious items.
    To whoever has the most domestic at the time... I did suspect you had to exceed them all but this was not the case when I ran a Kupe rock bands game. Get the highest domestic tourist number down is the name of the efficiency game, you will probably have to swap civs as you really do see their domestic tourist drop, so the main opposition will change. If you look at the result screen of the Kupe game I did not change but just thrashed the original leader to see if that is all you had to do.
     
  2. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    I am not sure this was a one time thing, but I bought 14 band in one turn with kupe, and 12 of them had the 'indie' promotion possibility. (I was able to take 5 neighboring cities in the next few turn with them peacefully)
    It looks like it is not entirely random.

    Also if it is not mentioned, the gold promotion can be very powerful for a high level band, bringing thousands of golds per concert possibly.
     
  3. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Prince

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    Rock Band is super overpowered, and it's a ridiculous idea. It does not fit at all with Civ.
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I said about this in a religious thread. Firaxis seems to like to introduce mechanics where there is an OP possibility and then make it too easy to get. It is not just rock bands, look at the joke religion is.
     
  5. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    Except if you are unlucky and lost them all in the first concert :)
    But if you manage to get a few indie lvl 5 rock band, with Eleanor..... Domination victory :)
     
  6. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    I have to believe that if the AI ever learns how to get to the rock band era with a decent faith engine, a lot of players are going to be rather unhappy with the RNG-fest that rock bands appear to be.

    It's all very well and good that your bands might be useless or unstoppable, but if people start losing games because the AI gets lucky with a couple of rock bands on T300, there may be some unhappy campers. Of course, since players are able to stop AI bands (units on wonders and districts) while the AI can't stop players' rock bands, maybe that won't happen.
     
  7. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    says something about how convoluted the culture victory is, when people don't understand how it even works. I also couldn't figure out if rock bands were helping me.
     
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  8. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Scare you to death every single change of turn...

    Reminds me of the war horn sound in Civ 4. That one was scary (because the AI could destroy you).
     
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  9. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Chieftain

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    As an informal experiment, I tried a 12-seat Prince game (Prince for no Culture modifiers) with the following rules:
    • Above all, play suboptimally--keep pace with AI
    • No Wonders
    • Max Two Cities
    • No Attacking Opponents
    • No Religion
    The payload was to get to Cold War with basically zero Tourism and see how possible/easy/fast it would be to simply win with Rock Bands.

    Spoilers: It's pretty easy. As you know Rock Band total effect is based on three compounding RNG-curves, resulting that any one band can generate anywhere from less than 1k tourism to 200k+. It takes about 3 "super bands" (bands that make it to level 4 and perform several times after that) to win the game from nothing against the "domestic tourists" associated with Cold War's level of cultural development. Based purely on anecdote, roughly 1/5 of my bands survive to this stage, and 3/5 die a quick and meaningless death.

    Album Cover Art is far, far more valuable than any other promotions (for purposes of Culture Victory). It is over 4 times more valuable than Glam Rock, which is probably the 2nd "best" promotion. (Wonders give 4x Tourism, and there are more of them.)


    At minimum, the impact of Rock Bands in general needs to come down, and something ought to be drastically changed about Album Cover Art. If you luck out and get it with Goes To 11, baby baby.

    More broadly, something has to be done about the RNG ramp. Spies at least have a variety of conservative "training wheels" options alongside the high-risk high-reward options they can grow into, as well as policies and other mechanisms that can rig the deck. If Rock Bands are going to be Spy-style RNG based unique units, they at least need vaguely similar low-risk options that build into the ambitious results--like an early band playing at Campuses to get their start, before leveling up to Amphitheater, then Stadiums, until one day playing at Stonehenge.

    If it were up to me to patch the system with minimal change, I'd just remove Wonders as a default option and separate the Promotions: (while optionally adding a few to fit)

    Level 1:
    • Arena Rock - Performs as if 2 levels more experienced on Entertainment Complex district tiles.
    • Glam Rock - Performs as if 2 levels more experienced on Theater Square district tiles.
    • New Age - Performs as if 2 levels more experienced on Campus district tiles.
    • Reggae Rock - Performs as if 2 levels more experienced on Water Park district tiles.
    Level 2:
    • Indie - Performing a concert causes that city to lose 50 Loyalty.
    • Pop Star - Earn Gold equal to 50% of the Tourism generated.
    • Religious Rock - Performs a concert that converts the majority religion of that city to the religion founded by the player.
    • Roadies - +4 Movement.
    Level 3:
    • Music Festival - Performs at National Parks for expected 1000 Tourism and 2 levels more experienced.
    • Surf Band - Performs at Seaside Resorts for expected 500 Tourism and 2 levels more experienced.
    • Space Rock - Performs at Spaceports for expected 1000 Tourism and 2 levels more experienced.
    • National Anthem - Performs at domestic Broadcast Centers and Stadiums to lower war weariness.
    Level 4:
    • Album Cover Art - Performs a final concert at Wonders for guaranteed 25000 Tourism, but the unit will disband.
    • Goes to 11 - Civilizations within 10 tiles receive 50% of the Tourism from this concert.
    • Battle of the Bands - Concerts destroy enemy Rock Band units within 5 tiles.
    • World Tour - Can perform at all City State districts for +2 Envoys.
    This means all bands have a good starter options, then get some unique utility, then a unique secondary option, then a capstone. It gates a retuned Album Cover at and Goes to 11 behind success, while also ensuring you cannot combine them. It also provides compelling alternate payloads--using experienced bands to deal with war weariness, Envoys, or even enemy Rock Bands.

    To end on a positive note, for all their current flaws, Rock Bands are an improvement to the Cultural Victory. It badly needed some sort of terminal point, some "finishing move" in the late game.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  10. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    Now factor in the OP Nobel Prize.
     
  11. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I haven't been following this thread lately, but did we reach any conclusion on (was the question even asked?) whether the chance for success was modified by the culture level of the target civilization? I'm having a really weird experience in my current game. I'm culture leader, and China (my neighbor) is second. He has loads of wonders, so I keep picking Album Cover Art promotion for my Rock Bands (I run the card that lets me choose). According to text, this should give them 26 % chance of retiring, but that does NOT match what happens at all. In fact, they seem to retire about 2/3 times. Most of them simply perform - retire. A few of them perform once for a level 3 performance and then retire. I have had two become level 2 (16 % chance to retire), after which they retired. I had one become level 3 (9 % chance for retirement), and then it retired immediately.

    I sort of kept going at them just because I wanted to see what happened, and at this point I've been through about 15 rock bands with the Album Cover Art promotion. I'm not sure whether it's just bad luck (seems extremely unlikely), if game sort of gets stuck on its random rolls and forgets to clear a cache, or if there's some hidden variable not shown?
     
  12. Karmah

    Karmah King Supporter

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    Well to add to the paranoia on rock band and rolls getting stuck, I've had turns, two to be exact in two different games , where I bought 6 of them (I like to do that) and they all had the exact three same promotion choices offered. Seems unlikely in the great scheme of RNG.
     
  13. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    Just asking this, because I've done it multiple times myself: It was not because you had the card to choose promotion freely, so it always shows the top three on the list? (I do this all the time when I'm suzerain of Yerevan and forgets it. :rolleyes:)
     
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  14. Karmah

    Karmah King Supporter

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    Yeah no. I never went far enough in game to see that card before yesterday. But I hear you, it would be very much me to trick myself this way. But no. Could have been a coincidence. The RNG god can be deceiving, 'the law of great numbers' I think his prophets calls it.
     
  15. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    Rock Bands seem to be linked to same cyclic 'RNG' that everything else is linked to. So they will cycle through a set list for their promotions and concerts.
     
  16. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    Pretty sure Apostles work the same way, if you create multiples before you choose their promotion.

    If you create one, choose the promotion, then create another, you get a different set of promotions. But if you create one, then create a second, they'll have the same options, I believe. Pretty sure I've seen that enough that it's the way the game works, and not RNG.
     
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  17. xiaoyu101

    xiaoyu101 Chieftain

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    Since my friend has been busy with his school work,the test about rock band isn't down yet.He will continue on this work as long as recent school things is settled,many sorry for you~
     

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  18. lordhaw

    lordhaw Chieftain

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    I was really surprised on how powerful the tourism thing can be with a rock band. I had good luck with a rock band in my last Canada game on the weekend and was able to do a world tour, the band just kept going and going. These guys were legendary, I must have used it about 12 times before it was done. My tourism shot up from middle of the pack to second place before the band finally broke up. And I had that ability that affected loyalty which was very powerful. I noted in some cases cities went to half loyalty even in the middle of a nation, even against Eleanor. It had no effect because of their location but that ability could easily flip a border city. If your culture game is strong, these bands could really seal the deal for you from what I saw anyway.
     
  19. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    The culture victory and tourism was already convoluted enough without throwing Rock Bands in there. Now Rock Bands just made it even worse.

    And tourism is still not tied to loyalty at all, is it? Or did I miss this in one of the post-R&F patches? That is my biggest complaint of Civ 6, I just can't get over how tourism has no impact on any gameplay mechanics outside of achieving a culture victory. Is there even a point in getting tourism if you have disabled a culture victory?
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Nope, you are still a loyal follower.
     
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