On a scale of one to ten , how would you rate Bush ?

[mangxema]

He gets a 1 from me; worst president ever.

Worse president you've ever seen, probably. Worst president ever, not by a long shot.

 

[JollyRoger]

Could you source that?

According to Cheney's 2001 financial disclosure report, the vice president's Halliburton benefits include three batches of stock options comprising 433,333 shares.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml

Halliburton stock options held by Dick Cheney rose 3,281% since October, 2004,according to figures compiled by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ), reports rawstory website today.

The options were worth $241,498, now they are worth $8 million.

In a Sept. 15 statement, as Halliburton was getting no-bid contracts for repairs following Hurricane Katrina, Lautenberg said that Cheney should divest himself of these Halliburton holdings.

http://www.rense.com/general67/stock.htm

 

[MobBoss]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml


http://www.rense.com/general67/stock.htm

Trumped: http://www.factcheck.org/kerry_ad_falsely_accuses_cheney_on_halliburton.html

That still would leave the possibility that Cheney could profit from his Halliburton stock options if the company's stock rises in value. However, Cheney and his wife Lynne have assigned any future profits from their stock options in Halliburton and several other companies to charity. And we're not just taking the Cheney's word for this -- we asked for a copy of the legal agreement they signed, which we post here publicly for the first time.

The "Gift Trust Agreement" the Cheney's signed two days before he took office turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education, a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools.

The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," so the Cheney's can't take back their options later.

The options owned by the Cheney's have been valued at nearly $8 million, his attorney says. Such valuations are rough estimates only -- the actual value will depend on what happens to stock prices in the future, which of course can't be known beforehand. But it is clear that giving up rights to the future profits constitutes a significant financial sacrifice, and a sizable donation to the chosen charities.

 

[JollyRoger]

Wrong. Pretty sure he sold them once he was running for president, same way Cheney had to sell all his Haliburton stock and leave the company prior to becoming the Veep.

Trumped

I have demonstrated and you have admitted through your links that Cheney did not have to get rid of all his financial ties to Halliburton. You calling trumped when posting a link that trumps your original assertion is kind of amusing.

 

[El_Machinae]

Too bad they use such sloppy language, because "after-tax profits" going to a charity leaves a tax credit. With a couple more details, that would be a very valuable report.

I wonder if there's a real way of verifying that the promise-to-pay exists.

 

[MobBoss]

I have demonstrated and you have admitted through your links that Cheney did not have to get rid of all his financial ties to Halliburton. You calling trumped when posting a link that trumps your original assertion is kind of amusing.

If you desire clarification by all means lets clarify. Was I incorrect in that Cheney 'sold' his stock once becoming veep? Yes. Is he going to profit from his stock options? No. He has signed an agreement giving them over to charity - which isnt really that far a leap from the point I was making - which was he isnt going to profit in any way by what Haliburton does financially.

Now, you can play all the silly semantic games you want with that....but the premise of my point - that Cheney no longer profits from what Haliburton does - is precisely valid and true.

I wonder if there's a real way of verifying that the promise-to-pay exists.

There is a link to the document on the factcheck link.

 

[Phlegmak]

Was I incorrect...? Yes.

JESUS!!!!! Impossible! MobBoy admitting to making a mistake?! No, no, it's not possible.

 

[JollyRoger]

If you desire clarification by all means lets clarify. Was I incorrect in that Cheney sold his stock once becoming veep? Yes. Is he going to profit from his stock options? No. He has signed an agreement giving them over to charity - which isnt really that far a leap from the point I was making - which was he divested himself of all things Haliburton prior to taking office as Vice President.

Now, you can play all the silly semantic games you want with that....but the premise of my point - that Cheney no longer profits from what Haliburton does - is precisely valid and true.

Actually, he is getting a much bigger write-off on his tax returns than he would had your original assertion been true. Plus, I never made any sort of claims on Cheney profiting, just that he didn't have to cut loose his financial ties. Unless "Trumped" was a reference to your original assertion, I think "Kicked the ball through a moved goalpost" would be an accurate fixx.

 

[El_Machinae]

If he's getting the tax deduction, then his money is being 'laundered' at 42%*. That's a pretty brutal rate (compared to some of the black market, but not others) but not so bad compared to laundering money through a casino.

*Assuming a 30% marginal tax rate at that bracket.

 

[El_Machinae]

There is a link to the document on the factcheck link.

No doubt. Such a document would have more credibility if it was being vouched on an attorney's page, or something. I'm not doubting the contract exists, but the evidence for its existence could be a smidge better. Requiring rigorous proof isn't unreasonable when you're talking about one of the most powerful men in the world.

 

[MobBoss]

JESUS!!!!! Impossible! MobBoy admitting to making a mistake?! No, no, it's not possible.

Again, I have always admitted error when such error exists. Otherwise, it aint going to happen.

No doubt. Such a document would have more credibility if it was being vouched on an attorney's page, or something. I'm not doubting the contract exists, but the evidence for its existence could be a smidge better. Requiring rigorous proof isn't unreasonable when you're talking about one of the most powerful men in the world.

I dunno, factcheck.org seems to have been pretty 'rigorous' in their research into the matter.

 

[JollyRoger]

Anyway, the Cheney charity thing may help me revise Bush up to a 4.5. His administration's no-bid contracts to Halliburton and its subsideraries were just a way to increase the coffers of some good organizations. Bidding for those contracts could have cut into or eliminated some of the donation to charity.

 

[Paradigne]

Again, I have always admitted error when such error exists. Otherwise, it aint going to happen.



I dunno, factcheck.org seems to have been pretty 'rigorous' in their research into the matter.

I thought I was wrong once.

I was mistaken.

 

[WICKLC1]

He's been a fairly average president. Its just that the current president is ALWAYS hated. People will probably have a better view of him in 20 years or so. I voted 7.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Its just that the current president is ALWAYS hated.

Unless he's Bill Clinton.

Cleo

 

[JollyRoger]

Unless he's Bill Clinton.

Cleo

Yeah, but Clinton has the advantage of being bookended by a couple of weaker-than-average Presidents.

 

[MobBoss]

Unless he's Bill Clinton.

Cleo

Well, that was back when people thought he was the first black president. The current campaign has shown him to be somewhat pale in that regard and his popularity has suffered a bit as a result.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Hey, people liked the guy.

Cleo

 

[JollyRoger]

Well, that was back when people thought he was the first black president. The current campaign has shown him to be somewhat pale in that regard and his popularity has suffered a bit as a result.

Still not in first-dry-drunk-we-want-to-have-a-beer-with President territory as far as popularity (or lack thereof) goes.

 

[Abaddon]

An idiot who has had a massive negative effect on the World.