One tile away from coast

[riapopia]

So, it seems like the consensus here has been settling 1 tile from saltwater is bad. Is the rationale for that the loss of intercontinental trade routes? Is that the entire reasoning?

I cannot post my screenshot now but I have a city site that is optimally placed (from a resources in the BFC perspective) 1 tile away from coast. Is that just a terrible idea? Or should 1-2 extra resources trump being on the coast?

Part of the challenge here is that there WILL be a seafood resource in my BFC that I will not be able to build a workboat for (for now).

General advice in this situation?

 

[shyuhe]

It depends on your other cities. If you're ok with having 3-4 dead tiles in your bfc (or however many coastal tiles you have in your bfc), then it's not that much of an issue although you do miss out on the harbor (nice) and custom house (so-so). You can always route a WB from somewhere else if you need to.

 

[stopstopp]

Build a different city to work the seafood, have the 1 off coast city work only land tiles.

 

[Artichoker]

So, it seems like the consensus here has been settling 1 tile from saltwater is bad. Is the rationale for that the loss of intercontinental trade routes? Is that the entire reasoning?

I cannot post my screenshot now but I have a city site that is optimally placed (from a resources in the BFC perspective) 1 tile away from coast. Is that just a terrible idea? Or should 1-2 extra resources trump being on the coast?

Part of the challenge here is that there WILL be a seafood resource in my BFC that I will not be able to build a workboat for (for now).

General advice in this situation?

If you want your cities to grow large, it's generally a bad idea to build a city 1 tile from the coast. This is mainly because you lose the benefits of working the water tiles near that city (due to lack of a lighthouse), and the benefits of having a coastal city in that area.

However, if you're only playing for the short-term, your city sizes won't get that large anyway. There's a good chance that you can build another city near this one that can take advantage of the water tiles and coastal location. You'll probably have a lot of tile overlap from squeezing the cities together.

The combination of overlapping cities and good access to resources can sometimes make it worth it to settle 1 tile away from the coast. This kind of city selection will probably force you to assign more specialists in these cities than usual, and it works better with a short-term game plan than a long-term one.

 

[Fleme]

I consider 1 tile off the coast an abomination of the worst kind.

Makes me cringe when I see an AI city 1 off the coast with something like 3-6 sea tiles and to top it off, it's also 1 tile off fresh water so there's no health benefit either.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to my dotmapping and I can honestly say that I never - absolutely never - settle 1 off the coast.

Only thing I could think of that would justify it would be an immediate need to block off a peninsula or other terrain but that's the only exception and even that decision I'd carefully weigh before actually doing it.

 

[Wreck]

So, it seems like the consensus here has been settling 1 tile from saltwater is bad. Is the rationale for that the loss of intercontinental trade routes? Is that the entire reasoning?

No, it is the loss of all coastal-city only buildings, most particularly the lighthouse. (See http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Coastal)

With a lighthouse, coast is 22, which is a weak tile but still profitable. Without, it is 12, which is unprofitable.

Coast also gets harbors for health (and better trade), so settling coast is rather like settling on rivers for fresh water.

I'd have to see the land to know for sure, but in general my advice would be to make two cities.

 

[Sporknife]

What if it's one of those places where being one off the coast diagonally puts no sea tiles in the bfc? Seems fine in that case to me

 

[obsolete]

I consider 1 tile off the coast an abomination of the worst kind.

I'll never forget Sid's silly face in the tutorial where he told people to follow the blue circles since they were supposed to be optimal city sites to settle.

Haha!

Hahaha!

Hahahaha!!!!!

It's no secret a lot of game designers are terrible at their own games.

 

[stopstopp]

Every site is optimal in settler

 

[georgjorge]

I consider 1 tile off the coast an abomination of the worst kind.

Interesting...it's not so uncommon for me to build those cities. 3-4 unworkable tiles are fine if there are 15 others that can be improved.


As to the original question, I don't think coastal cities get better trade routes than non-coastal ones (without Harbor/Custom House) as long as the non-coastal ones have any connection to a coastal city.

 

[obsolete]

You never built the great lighthouse yet, have you...

 

[roguepro92]

sacraficing those tiles wont matter unless you plan on that city working EVERY tile in its cross.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Try not to do it.

If you are getting a block you'd otherwise not get, ok.

If you're only getting 1 junk tile (say 1 off coast on an awkward shape, such that you only have 1 coast tile in the BFC) and it's the only way to fit multiple strong resources in, consider it.

If the "coast" is really just a big lake, still try not to do it, but doing it is less harmful than otherwise (naval power and trade routes matter less there, so it's just a question of harbors/lighthouse)

If the captured AI city has good stuff in it, suboptimal placement is often better than razing/starting anew there.

 

[DutchJob]

Excellent advice.

 

[vicawoo]

How many grassland tiles would you give up to settle on the coast?

 

[stopstopp]

Questions concerning said question:
1. Do we have the GLH or colossus?
2. Are we financial?
3. Are the grassland tiles riverside?

 

[vicawoo]

Questions concerning said question:
1. Do we have the GLH or colossus?
2. Are we financial?
3. Are the grassland tiles riverside?

No
No
Try either case

 

[iggymnrr]

Generally I don't do it. But I'm more of a pragmatist so sometimes the ugly deed gets done.

 

[stopstopp]

There are so many variables concerning settling on coast.

AI's across the ocean
Blocking value, do we lose it by settling on coast?
Closeness to civil service
Seafood
land food
are the tiles given up being able to be used in the future by another city and will that city be able to pull it's own weight?
civics being used
civics available
etc...

 

[Decius]

I don't like to settle one-off the coast, but there are some mitigating factors.
One that hasn't been mentioned yet is city overlap, especially when planning where to locate cities 2 to 6 (or whatever). Sometimes I find myself placing a city one off the coast to take better advantage of the terrain and resources for other city locations.
Evaluating it can get quite complex sometimes, and some games I can't convince myself there is a best answer. But that's Civ for you, and I wouldn't have it any other way.