Optimal Stack of Doom size?

[typopanther]

So, I was wondering what people's thoughts were on stack size. I was most recently playing Realism Invictus so I got in the habit of creating a stack with 3 melee, 3 mobile, 3 ranged, 3 Recon, & 3 artillery because of the "crowded" promotion after 15 units and with the different "aid" promotions the different units provide.

I noticed in worldbuilder that the same promotions exist, but I don't think they are all implemented so I'm thinking I might need to change my strategy. I've also been playing with the surround and destroy option on, so it makes sense to split things up once I get to a city anyway.

I figured I would see how the rest of you do it. My play style is usually to have a smaller amount of highly promoted units than a huge mass anyway, but I know that's a sub-optimal way in the first place, although it doesn't have as much of an impact on my economy that way. But anyway, like I said, just looking for other perspectives.

Thanks

 

[Koshling]

I don't really think there is a one size fits all optimum size - depends on the nature of your target and the era. From middle ages onwards having a decent amount of siege and bombard units becomes much more important than it is earlier on. I also like to have at least 3 or 4 fast moving units for surround and destroy purposes (move them to surrounding plots, attack, then move them back to safety in the same turn). Obviously keeping a mix of defensive types also helps so you have good defenses against melee, mounted, etc. Make sure to have a healer or two to avoid downtime.
Most important of all (if you play with the feat commanders option on) is for any serious invasion force t have a well promoted great commander with it.

 

[ls612]

It depends on the era. In the Ancient era 15 may be enough to do some damage, but by Medieval you need at least 50 units in a stack to make the enemy afraid.

 

[szemek77]

It depends on the era. In the Ancient era 15 may be enough to do some damage, but by Medieval you need at least 50 units in a stack to make the enemy afraid.

That's correct. In my current game I visited my Russian "friends" with a stack of
15-20 units, all nicely promoted. Guess what... not even a dust left in just one turn. No survivors. I must admit that military is getting very, very challenging each version. It is not so easy to take cities like it was before, and AI is defending nicely.

 

[JJOne]

I believe the difficulty is also decisive. I don't seem to need many units on prince.

 

[typopanther]

Thanks for all your responses, definitely good to keep in mind. It definitely does probably depend on the difficulty level. I've mostly been on the prince/monarch level using the GEM.

On a similar note then, how many defenders do you usually end up with when you start getting into medieval era? I assume the defense get pretty strong but I imagine my standard 4 archers and 4 siege might be a bit unprepared. I would also have whatever healers & police I need to manage disease and crime but that's something else entirely.

 

[Koshling]

Thanks for all your responses, definitely good to keep in mind. It definitely does probably depend on the difficulty level. I've mostly been on the prince/monarch level using the GEM.

On a similar note then, how many defenders do you usually end up with when you start getting into medieval era? I assume the defense get pretty strong but I imagine my standard 4 archers and 4 siege might be a bit unprepared. I would also have whatever healers & police I need to manage disease and crime but that's something else entirely.

I think that's really a play-style question. Personally I tend to use a fairly light defense in individual cities with a fast-moving roving force able to respond to 'incidents' quickly stationed near my borders consisting of maybe half a dozen horsemen-line units, a great general (a well promoted great general is key to the light-force response strategy as its a huge force-multiplier), and maybe a few defensive units. I also station very light stacks (often just one unit) on or near choke points in good defensive terrain (e.g. - archer on forested hill) along my border, so I can see attack stacks as they approach me (and then respond with my roving force). Having dog-line units with the 'watchmen' is also good so you can see invisible units trying to enter your lands.

I also try to keep my own invisible units (after the early game where they just hunt animals mostly, and pick off AI scouts) near, but outside my borders - usually harrying whatever AI is close to me.

 

[JJOne]

Defence... I end up with the archers moved from the older cities to the empire extremities, and as many guards as necessary in all cities to prevent crime or give stability for revolutions. Plus dogs and horsemen in the border cities for assasin control, and some anti-melee axemen or, even better, elephants defending workers against bandits in border regions.
Outside of the borders the explorers do a great defensive / scouting job.
And the offensive stacks when not at war stay at home on alert.
And, naturally, one of your military cities must be coastal, and you must keep your 5 dragon pirates/privateers with the best offensive promos available in order to attack surprise invasions without declaring war.
Invisible units and warlords are in rival civs on GG point farming.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

i've lost a 115 orso unit Stack in 2 turns due to enemy canon fire that's mostly musketeers and a furious me it was an SVN version around November orso ago (before a lot of AI work) and even then i do not know how i managed to A) keep on the offensive, B) win the bloody war (and bloody it was millions of casualties mostly on the enemy side although i lost an astronomical amount of men for my gamestyle i like Tanky 1 man army dudes in stacks of 30+ and i lost over 400 units although i was slightly outteched)

 

[Thunderbrd]

i've lost a 115 orso unit Stack in 2 turns due to enemy canon fire that's mostly musketeers and a furious me it was an SVN version around November orso ago (before a lot of AI work) and even then i do not know how i managed to A) keep on the offensive, B) win the bloody war (and bloody it was millions of casualties mostly on the enemy side although i lost an astronomical amount of men for my gamestyle i like Tanky 1 man army dudes in stacks of 30+ and i lost over 400 units although i was slightly outteched)

I play a similar way - quality over quantity... and I LOVE it when wars end up this tough without being a totally overwhelming washout! See now THAT sounds like a fun game!

 

[Danwood]

what about stack size limit option? Do you use it? i set it on 7, hate stacks of doom, but also hate the 1 tile 1 unit civ5 style, and im fearing AI isn't competent with the option turned on.

 

[Koshling]

what about stack size limit option? Do you use it? i set it on 7, hate stacks of doom, but also hate the 1 tile 1 unit civ5 style, and im fearing AI isn't competent with the option turned on.

You are correct - it destroys the AI completely.

 

[Danwood]

You are correct - it destroys the AI completely.

Doh! You should definitely state that in the tooltip description


Since we are on subject... some options from the worldbuilder like guilds, dark ages, strenght in numbers, elections etc are not shown in the game creation menu, are they bugged or something?

Also, should i disable other victory conditions with mastery enabled? will it still allow me building the UN (without the game creation UN option turned on)?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Doh! You should definitely state that in the tooltip description


Since we are on subject... some options from the worldbuilder like guilds, dark ages, strenght in numbers, elections etc are not shown in the game creation menu, are they bugged or something?

Also, should i disable other victory conditions with mastery enabled? will it still allow me building the UN (without the game creation UN option turned on)?

Are you sure you are in the right mod? Dark Ages were a RoM:AND idea but were removed before C2C came along. Guilds are not in C2C anymore. Elections were an idea for RoM:AND they are not in C2C. Strength in Numbers I have never heard of.

Mastery victory means all are victory conditions are met to win. I think you should leave them on,

 

[Danwood]

Are you sure you are in the right mod? Dark Ages were a RoM:AND idea but were removed before C2C came along. Guilds are not in C2C anymore. Elections were an idea for RoM:AND they are not in C2C. Strength in Numbers I have never heard of.

Mastery victory means all are victory conditions are met to win. I think you should leave them on,

Check by youself, go in the worldbuilder, review the game settings from there

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Check by youself, go in the worldbuilder, review the game settings from there

The problem there is that removing game options is hard so they are usually just turned off. I restate Dark Ages, Elections and Guilds have nothing in them turning them on will at best have no effect and at worst break things. Strength in Numbers is probably known by something else but was never changed to the new name. No idea what it is.

 

[Danwood]

The problem there is that removing game options is hard so they are usually just turned off. I restate Dark Ages, Elections and Guilds have nothing in them turning them on will at best have no effect and at worst break things. Strength in Numbers is probably known by something else but was never changed to the new name. No idea what it is.

Thats sounds quite like trash DNA or vestigal organs doesn't it ?

Good to know, i won't mess with those.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yes... that's a bit what they are but they may have future use yet thus have not been removed.

Strength in Numbers is one of my projects and I haven't discussed it much yet because its not ready... other steps must be completed before it can be utilized. Should be fairly easy to implement once a few more things are in place.

 

[Draakon]

Lately, I have been using multiple, but smaller stacks. I have about 5 or 6 stacks of Surrounding a City stacks consisting about 3-4 of different types of anti units (anti-meele, archer, etc) with a dog and a healer of sorts. 2 Stacks of siege equipment (about 2-3 siege units and/or units that cause collateral damage in the early eras) and 6 units that can withdraw as to take the enemy units HP down before I attack with my city raiders which is 1 stack of itself of about 10 units.

My strategy on siege a city is that I surround it, with the surround units staying on the side of the city where I expect the enemy to attack the most, while the other 3 stacks (siege and city raiders) bring the enemy units and defenses down until I am ready to capture.

I do have about 2-3 stacks of units standing by nearby to surround and destroy any enemy units & stacks that come to reinforce their city and get rid of my siege. These are by far the largest and usually strongest stacks, about 10-20 units with healers as well. These consist of units that are well suited to attack any unit in any terrain. If I am expecting heavy casualties from these units attacking enemy units, I bring my final part of the army into the fray as well.

This final stack is my mobile units (horses, etc) that are tasked with pillaging and getting out of the way. They also have withdraw usually and are used to attack units sometimes that I normally can't defeat with my other stacks as to bring down their HP a bit so my main units can mop them up after.

Sometimes, If I can I also have 1-2 stacks of Bandits and other Criminal units roaming around inside the enemies territory, causing as much damage as possible. Around 5-10 units.