Origin of Athiesm

[Luckymoose]

There is physical evidence that shows that zebras exist. There is no physical evidence that shows that any sort of god(s) exist.

QED

Pretty sure someone just painted a horse! You can't fool me with your witchcraft!

 

[timtofly]

Someone can be a "Christian", a believer in Christ, and not necessarily believe that they know they're right about it, nor believe it is the only possible correct religion, or necessarily believe every word of the Bible is true.

Someone else can be a Christian and be a Catholic and have very strict adherence to a very strict doctrine.

Someone else can identify as Christian on a census form and be fairly apathetic about the whole thing.

Yet all three of these people are counted as Christians.

I consider folks who were never taught a religion and don't believe in the supernatural to be atheists by default. I consider folks who aren't aware of the supernatural to be atheists by default. Their views may not mesh with strong atheism, but they CERTAINLY do not mesh with being a theist, and most closely resemble atheists in practice, if not in 'spirit', pardon the pun.

I don't think the point you're arguing is worth fighting for, frankly, because the implications of such would probably mean I can say half of all Christians aren't really christian.

Theoretically, you could say 95%. I say (in this thread) it is easier to define an athiest, than a Christian. There are very few people who want to give up free will. Now if you can convince me that an atheist does not have free will, then we can talk.

 

[Winston Hughes]

I think you're not arguing against absence, but against unawareness.

Of course, I'd assume that absence of belief in god(s) is a necessary condition of atheism under any reasonable definition. What I'm saying is that it's not a sufficient condition of atheism under all reasonable definitions. And, moreover, that the more useful (and the more widely used) definitions require a fair bit more than just the absence of belief.

Correct me if I'm wrong. You want atheism to be regarded as a position where you're aware of faith/belief in God, but chose not to participate in that faith/belief for whatever reason. That to be the default position. All the while allowing the unaware atheist into the club, but as an exception rather than the rule.

Well, it's not so much about what I want, as what I think makes sense when discussing the nature and origins of atheism. But, yeah, that's a decent definition for most uses.

I would add, though, that the narrower 'there are no deities' definition would usually make for more interesting discussion.

The definitions they give become more and more inclusive, in the end including people like me in their definition of atheism.

More inclusive definitions are not necessarily better ones, though. Indeed, they can be wildly misleading.

For example, an awful lot of atheists count as Christians, if you take the most inclusive definition of the latter (which, regrettably, does still happen occasionally).

 

[warpus]

More inclusive definitions are not necessarily better ones, though. Indeed, they can be wildly misleading.

For example, an awful lot of atheists count as Christians, if you take the most inclusive definition of the latter (which, regrettably, does still happen occasionally).

It just doesn't make sense to define atheism in a way that makes someone who says: "I don't believe that God exists" not an atheist.

It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Winston Hughes]

It just doesn't make sense to define atheism in a way that makes someone who says: "I don't believe that God exists" not an atheist.

Sure it does. Just as it makes sense to define the word 'footballer' in such a way as to exclude people who only enjoy the occasional kick around in the park. There are times when you may need to define the term more broadly, so as to include such people, but that doesn't mean you need to include them whenever you use the word.

ps. I don't mean to say that the two cases are identical, btw. Just that the same kind of discrimination takes place.

pps. For the purposes of bragging, inclusive definitions can be extremely useful. Did you know that I'm a scientist, philosopher, engineer, athlete, and sex machine?