Orthus and his merry men

[slowcar]

Orthus feels too weak for me. In most games he just gets killed by a stack of scouts and unpromoted warriors that wear him down.

how about giving him some mob that joins him in his quest to lay waste and destruction? like four named scorpion goblins that follow him like fanboys.
would make it less easy to stockpile weak units on orthus.

i would like orthus to be the early destroyer of empires that invades you with a small horde of barbarians.

other options would be to make his fanboys a bit stronger and cut a point strength on him.
or give him cannibalism (but how should this be justified storywise?) to let him heal after every scout that tries to wear him down.
or first strikes? takes some time to overcome his reach with the mighty flaming axe.

personally i fear random dungeon bosses a lot more, happens from time to time that the AI spawns some azers, even lost about 3 AIs to a wraith.
at the moment i am happy when orthus spawns a few tiles from me, he is an easy kill with 5 unpromoted warriors (at least until he gets all promotions up and running) and he rarely lives longer then five turns when he comes up near the AI - but that may be related to the difficulty level.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

If Orthus needs a stack of scouts and warriors to be brought down that early, he is fine, I believe. Perhaps it would be better for you if he would just went and killed everything in his way, and you lost the game until turn 80...That would sure be fun, eh?

Remember, Orthus may come after you first. I have been killed by Orthus early game. Since then, I always guard my capital with 4 warriors minimum... and build it on a hill.

 

[MiKa523]

Maybe give him some chance to convert neutral and especially evil units, when defeating them, kinda like a command promotion only for certain alignments.

 

[Blathergut]

Last game around, Orthus slaughtered everything in sight...swordsmen behind palisades on hills. Prob was, he'd hit...then wander away, heal, and come back...or visit the next place of doom. Couldn't attack him. Eventually he attacked repeatedly in the open and I could counterattack. But it all but devasted, whilst the ai was happily building!

He's definitely not too weak.

 

[Bumbar]

He's not weak. It's true he dies soon sometimes, especially if he spawns next to human player. But in most games, it often takes very long time for AI to kill him and empire that has to suffer his attacks falls behind every time.

 

[heisenberg]

Hmmm... I do agree with Slow that Orthus usually takes merely 3-4 unpromoted warriors to kill, possibly even less if you managed to grab bronze working for copper before he attacks you. Not to mention that he's a melee hero, and I almost always grab Shock I-II for my early units, so he falls pretty easily. It takes even less when he slams right into your fortified warriors in a city, since he's usually wounded in the process.

I suppose the difficulty does factor in when Orthus attacks AI civs. At Emp/Immortal, very often the top defender in AI cities early on would at least have combat III-IV or more.
Strong as Orthus may be, even if he manages to kill the top AI defender in a city he'll usually be injured and get killed by the AI the very next turn.

I'm usually happy too when Orthus spawns next to me since its effectively a "cheap" useful equipment delivered right to your doorstep.
Only exception is when he spawns right next to your "worker stack" and kills all of them immediately when he moves the same turn.
I totally hate it when this occurs, or when the Illians finish Samhain and you get Frostling Riders kill your workers before they can move away.
It'll be nice if these randomly spawned barbarians get "held" for 1 turn when they are spawned before they move on to attack. Since this isn't a case of leaving unprotected workers next to a lair, but a randomly spawned barbarian in a visible tile, not fog, attacking.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

I have mixed feelings on Orthus. I've seen a Civ leave their goodbye message, open up world builder and find Orthus sitting on a city with a cheery grin, but likewise, when Orthus comes for me, for the most part all he does is irritate me with some pillaging before eventually throwing himself onto the pointy sharp objects he'd by my city guarding Warriors. I think Orthus is fine as he is though. I kind of like seeing him spawn near me, because Blitz+1 Str is a very nice piece of equipment, but sometimes he can be a gigantic pain in the arse. If anything I think he needs to be programmed to fling his body at cities less, because unless he atacks my fortified Warriors, I have a difficult time killing him off. He wanders around my lands pillaging everything in sight (and if I rebuild it he goes back and pillages it again), and so long as he moves smartly along hills and forests, I rarely find him out in the open where a suicide-zerg would bring him down.

I will admit, like the OP, I do find Dungeon bosses more fearsome than Orthus. If the Azer bosses pop early, I usually just quit and restart because they usually equal insta-death for me*, but I think that's more a balance issue relating to Dungeon spawns relative to turns in the game.

*I know that means "you probably shouldn't pop lairs early then", but the Ruins that pop Lizardmen really drive me nuts, because Lizardmen always have my workers on their toes, and unlike Skeletons, Warriors can't match them toe-to-toe.

 

[Grey Fox]

When it takes the AI one or two scouts and a lightbringer to take Orthus down, he's too weak. At least boost him depending on difficulty level.

 

[Mesix]

If Orthus started with the March promotion, he would last a bit longer. He is often injurred by the time he reaches a city to attack.

 

[Elm]

I believe barbarian units all have heal-on-move. I do not know how the heal rate compares with march though.

 

[Blathergut]

Orthus heals as he moves ...and quickly!!

 

[Imuratep]

MC's idea concerning Orthus is the best. Every time he attacks he should create an axeman that defends him. Orthus isn't so weak in general he just needs some good backup. If he walks around lonely it's no wonder that a good human player slaughters him and he's just a walking equipment.
What's good that Orthus teaches careless players to defend their cities because Charadon, Tasunke and his comrades are much more dangerous, but Orthus on first sight seems more spectacular.

 

[MetalMilitia-]

Until the AI learns to not throw away production on scouts that it will toss out into the wilderness for a quick death, instead of producing a decent defense, it would be very unwise to buff any of the early barbs. I think he is fine the way he is...against humans anyway.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I still don't understand why you want to get killed by Orthus at the Early Game...
If you want a barbarian challenge, play with raging barbarians..Its there, just a click away...

 

[Imuratep]

Because raging barbs for some players is not enough. And I'm sure an improved Orthus will not kill the game but enable new strategies. I like all changes that make the early game more interesting as unless you play one of the early rush civs this phase is the most boring part of the game.

 

[slowcar]

in my opinion orthus should be like a small war, with the effort that his axe deserves.
it would be great to scale him by difficulty to make the challenge more enjoyable for everybody. you could also make it an option. or people that don't like it disable him anyhow.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

For the record, GAMEOPTION_NO_ORTHUS already exists.


I don't think that having Orthus spawn an axeman every time he attacks is such a good idea. I added <UnitCreateFromCombat>UNIT_AXEMAN</UnitCreateFromCombat> and <iUnitCreateFromCombatChance>20</iUnitCreateFromCombatChance> in my version, so there is a 1 in 5 chance of an axeman spawning each time he kills a living unit.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Set his base strength equal to difficulty level (settler = 1, chieftain = 2, deity = 9, etc.) Note he'd have the axe boost on top of that.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Because raging barbs for some players is not enough. And I'm sure an improved Orthus will not kill the game but enable new strategies. I like all changes that make the early game more interesting as unless you play one of the early rush civs this phase is the most boring part of the game.

OK, then. If you play Deity with raging barbarians enabled and still think Orthus is too weak, then you can enable more options to make your early game a "I need to survive Orthus" issue... I haven't beaten deity yet. So, spare the rest of us, please.

EDIT:Oh and, by the way, there is an option to "advance start", if you find early game to be boring...Just in case you have missed it.

 

[Grey Fox]

I still don't understand why you want to get killed by Orthus at the Early Game...
If you want a barbarian challenge, play with raging barbarians..Its there, just a click away...

Just like Orthus, Raging Barbarians doesn't make the game harder, it makes it easier. Easier because you get more experience, which makes your troops better. Now the AI will also get this, and sometimes more. But you know how to handle your troops better than they do so can usually gain more from this, not to mention that some AI just drop dead from Raging Barbs. Orthus is basically just a free axe that costs a few warriors to gain.