OT improvement suggestions

[sirdanilot]

I don't see why everyone feels witty and fun spam is bad.

It's the threads made by new users, that have a vague topic title and no clarification in OT posts, that should be closed on sight. Even if they are not against the rules.

It's the senseless polls that have been posted a thousand times already, and have no potential for any discussion, that should be closed.

Moderators should be able to judge wether a thread has potential for discussion, or not. A good spam thread once in a while should not be closed immediately. Only severely rulebreaking threads should be locked, and the type I described above. I think you all know what I mean.

Taking away postcount is a senseless idea. I don't post solely for post count, but the feeling that I am climbing up a fictive ladder does encourage me to post more. If post count would be taken away, most new members might miss that impulse, thus filtering the fun away for them. It's not the most important thing (the discussion is, of course), but certainly should not be disregarded.

CFC is not only for civ (although that's its main purpose, of course). I came here because I used to play civ. I don't play it anymore, but I don't want to be discouraged and leave. I want to stick around, and many other people do aswell.
Only because we lost our initial purpose to come here shouldn't mean we should be scared away in any way, shape or form.

 

[Irish Caesar]

I don't see why everyone feels witty and fun spam is bad.

Because with very little exception, the people who like the "witty and fun" spam are the ones that post "not-witty and stupid" spam.

 

[sirdanilot]

Because with very little exception, the people who like the "witty and fun" spam are the ones that post "not-witty and stupid" spam.

I don't post spam of any kind, but I still think that an idiotic thread or witty spam is very nice once in a while.
I don think you should generalize this way.

 

[Bill3000]

QFT.

Interesting that in that late-2005 poll only one mod voted in favor of keeping postcounts visible. I'd vote no as well, though I think making the whole Colosseum PC-free is an even better idea - my own PC would drop to under a thousand I think.

It does done in Apolyton, didn't change a thing there, except making it impossible to search threads in non-OT threads. And that place is far more obsessed with postcount than CFC.

 

[North King]

Dare I suggest an ulterior motive hiding in this suggestion? For if OT were to be made non-postcount, the PC of users like Perfection would be wiped out, and you and your NESing chums would have by far the highest postcounts on the site.

Oh ho ho! You've found me out!

Nah, if that was my motive, why would I suggest getting rid of post count altogether?

Moreover, maybe half of my own post count is in OT.

NES shouldn't be postcount, anyways.

Probably true.

 

[GenMarshall]

For once, I would like to see people stop accusing other people of being flip-floppers.

 

[Birdjaguar]

CFC is a community of people who have different interests and skills, and like communities all over the world, its members like to win, to show off, to keep score and to make friends. Most of us came here through civ. We are gamers who keep score and who like to win. For the civers, CFC offers HoF and GOTM in a dozen flavors. In addition, for the creative types there is the opportunity to create mods, scenarios, strategy guides, game art, etc etc. The civ side of life here is all about competition coupled with a healthy dose of helpfulness and friendship (thanks to mods and TF). Of course the ultimate "score" here is to be asked to be a mod and get the blue & red badge of success.

In OT all the same personal forces are at work with fewer outlets for scoring success so OT has its own ways of measuring success. The OT scoring system is an unwritten one that flexes and changes as the regular posters change, but it appears to have been pretty consistent for the past 4 or so years. The "community" confers status to those posters who maintain a precense and display strength in several areas.

Post count is a major one these measures. Big numbers impress people and a high pc demonstrates a dedication to the site and particiaption in the community. It is a running tally of the hours spent here. A high score in the HoF says you are a skilled civ player. It does not tell us whether or not you share your skills or your time with other here. Post count is all about time spent here contributing whether it is good and bad stuff. A high HoF score measures ones deidcation to civ. A high pc measures one's dedication to CFC. Some people have both.

Post counts, warnings and bans are the only numeric scores that OT posters have to measure their time here. That is why it is such a powerful measure for some people. Winners and losers in debates is always up for another debate, but pc is pc and it cannot be argued. As people we like to keep score and know where we stand with others in our community. Until another number is available, pc will be important to many here. Sports scores, civ scores, delgates, dollars, house size, post count, they all let us know how "our" side is doing.

If you want to do away with pc, then give us something else that does as good or a better job of measuring our contribution to CFC. And if you feel that OT posters who run their pc to 10, 20, and now 30,000 don't make a contribution, then dump OT altogether and be the poorer for it. Lots of things in life cause trouble and disrupt the orderliness many people want. Order without chaos at the edges and in the heart is a dismal place. For all the "trouble" that pc causes, many of you fail to understand that it also is the source of much of the vibrancy and quiet chaos that makes CFC sparkle.

 

[sirdanilot]

CFC is a community of people who have different interests and skills, and like communities all over the world, its members like to win, to show off, to keep score and to make friends. Most of us came here through civ. We are gamers who keep score and who like to win. For the civers, CFC offers HoF and GOTM in a dozen flavors. In addition, for the creative types there is the opportunity to create mods, scenarios, strategy guides, game art, etc etc. The civ side of life here is all about competition coupled with a healthy dose of helpfulness and friendship (thanks to mods and TF). Of course the ultimate "score" here is to be asked to be a mod and get the blue & red badge of success.

In OT all the same personal forces are at work with fewer outlets for scoring success so OT has its own ways of measuring success. The OT scoring system is an unwritten one that flexes and changes as the regular posters change, but it appears to have been pretty consistent for the past 4 or so years. The "community" confers status to those posters who maintain a precense and display strength in several areas.

Post count is a major one these measures. Big numbers impress people and a high pc demonstrates a dedication to the site and particiaption in the community. It is a running tally of the hours spent here. A high score in the HoF says you are a skilled civ player. It does not tell us whether or not you share your skills or your time with other here. Post count is all about time spent here contributing whether it is good and bad stuff. A high HoF score measures ones deidcation to civ. A high pc measures one's dedication to CFC. Some people have both.

Post counts, warnings and bans are the only numeric scores that OT posters have to measure their time here. That is why it is such a powerful measure for some people. Winners and losers in debates is always up for another debate, but pc is pc and it cannot be argued. As people we like to keep score and know where we stand with others in our community. Until another number is available, pc will be important to many here. Sports scores, civ scores, delgates, dollars, house size, post count, they all let us know how "our" side is doing.

If you want to do away with pc, then give us something else that does as good or a better job of measuring our contribution to CFC. And if you feel that OT posters who run their pc to 10, 20, and now 30,000 don't make a contribution, then dump OT altogether and be the poorer for it. Lots of things in life cause trouble and disrupt the orderliness many people want. Order without chaos at the edges and in the heart is a dismal place. For all the "trouble" that pc causes, many of you fail to understand that it also is the source of much of the vibrancy and quiet chaos that makes CFC sparkle.

Agreed, agreed, agreed!
Very nicely put.

This is exactly why removing post count and/or join dates is a bad idea.

But erm, are warnings what you would call a measurement of succes? Or bans for that matter. Seems more like the opposite to me.

 

[azzaman333]

Depends on each person's perspecitve. For most, an infraction or a ban is a bad thing, but for a select few they are considered to be badges of honour.

 

[Abaddon]

Why call its pc if its not your forum pc?

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Depends on each person's perspecitve. For most, an infraction or a ban is a bad thing, but for a select few they are considered to be badges of honour.

And those 'select' few (self selected if I may add ) have better changed their perspective, or else...

 

[Swedishguy]

Of course the ultimate "score" here is to be asked to be a mod and get the blue & red badge of success.

Umm... no. I don't think I would like to be a moderator even if TF asked me to. What's so darn great about being a moderator?

 

[Richard Cribb]

First of all, I am really not representative for this board. So my thoughts about this might be of little relevance to most. But anyway;

Personally I havent noticed any big decline but a lot of people seem to have.

I also fail to see any big decline.
Considering what makes up the majority of members on this board, I can't see how we can expect more than we are getting.

1. I think a lot of the best threads come from discussuions from news stories, I reckon more of those is a good thing.

Not so sure about that, really.
It tends to put people like me, who is not sucking the tit of corporate media, at a considerable disadvantage. I think I would prefer a discussion based on some principal question of a political, ethical or philosophical character .
That said, I think people should be free to chose what they want to base any discussion on, so if they want to post news stories, I have no objection whatsoever. But I can hardly see we need more of it than we already have.

2. Maybe a lessening of threads based purely on images?

Are there really so many of those?

3. Maybe more calm and rational criticisms between European and US posters? We constitute the majority of posters, and lately things have become very tit-for-tat, which I'm guilty of myself. I'm talking about threads which go

USPoster: Yeah well you Europeans are commies anyway, we saved your ass back in WW2, because God says so

Europeanposter: shut up you halfwitted hillbilly, learn some culture and then get back to me, you flag-waving drone

I agree that there is a considerable cultural gap, but that is certainly not the only schism, and I certainly resent to be dubbed a "European". Indeed some of the last mentioned cathegory are among the most repulsive individuals here.
As for "calm" and "rational" criticism, the problem with this is that it demands that you have something calm and rational to critisize.

4. More polls. they usually lead to a good discussion and give a good idea of where people stand.

I agree on that one.

any other ideas?

One which have been suggested a couple of times before and which I have understood is not very popular, but is quite common elsewhere, would be to split the OT in sub-foras. I for one, think it might work out well.
It might also not hurt with a bigger diversity among the moderators; if there are some many reds here as some of the Usual suspects claim, why are there not at least one communist moderator?

 

[Knight-Dragon]

One which have been suggested a couple of times before and which I have understood is not very popular, but is quite common elsewhere, would be to split the OT in sub-foras. I for one, think it might work out well.

I had pushed for it before. Twice.

IIRC TF was ok with trying it out but I wasn't too sure by the end of the long rounds of arguing with the OT people anymore, so... At least that's how I remembered it.

It might also not hurt with a bigger diversity among the moderators; if there are some many reds here as some of the Usual suspects claim, why are there not at least one communist moderator?

Moderators moderate based on the guidelines, common-sense, matured judgement and fair-handedness. Not political outlook.

Besides, we already have mods from diverse locations and backgrounds. I remember the days when the OT was moderated by two USian mods only.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Umm... no. I don't think I would like to be a moderator even if TF asked me to. What's so darn great about being a moderator?

Don't worry; you're in no danger of being asked to be one. Ever.

And you're quite right. It's no glamour position - in fact it's slavery! Work with no pay! No benefits! And dealing with crap everyday! And whiners! :riot:

 

[Richard Cribb]

I had pushed for it before. Twice.

IIRC TF was ok with trying it out but I wasn't too sure by the end of the long rounds of arguing with the OT people anymore, so... At least that's how I remembered it.

Yes, that sounds like quite an accurate description of the past. But still I think it would have been a good idea.

Moderators moderate based on the guidelines, common-sense, matured judgement and fair-handedness. Not political outlook.

I am not sure if I should engage with somebody who is a moderator himself in this kind of debate, but I will take a stab.
Might I point out that "common-sense, matured judgement and fair-handedness" are just words before anybody define them. They are nice and fluffy, and we all ascribe them to people we like.
I could name at least one moderator who the way I see it is sorely lacking all those qualities. Political opinions, on the other hand is something more concrete. And there has been some controversial decisions made by moderators where I dare say that politics played an important part. Sometimes one wants to be judged by one's equals...

Besides, we already have mods from diverse locations and backgrounds. I remember the days when the OT was moderated by two USian mods only.

Location is less important to me and I am not sure what is meant by background.

 

[RedRalph]

I think splitting the forum is a terrible idea. Its great to have eveythign in together, more inclusive and more diverse ideas. Splittign it will slow down the post rate. Frankly, if spam annoys you that much, just get over it. Dont read it.

and I wish the mods would stop being so victorian in their attitudes, and have a little more sense of humour. anythign vaguely rude is closed immediately. If its not what people want, then no one will post on the thread and it will soon be forgotten (listen to me, I sound like a free marketeer). theres a big difference between rude language being used ot abuse someone and someone making a jokey thread about weirdest places you've pissed. Its harmless, and lightens the mood on what can sometimes be an overly serious forum. Just ease off a bit, nothing will fall apart.

 

[IglooDame]

and I wish the mods would stop being so victorian in their attitudes, and have a little more sense of humour. anythign vaguely rude is closed immediately. If its not what people want, then no one will post on the thread and it will soon be forgotten (listen to me, I sound like a free marketeer). theres a big difference between rude language being used ot abuse someone and someone making a jokey thread about weirdest places you've pissed. Its harmless, and lightens the mood on what can sometimes be an overly serious forum. Just ease off a bit, nothing will fall apart.

Victorian attitude? Oh man, you have no idea.

But anyway, here's what we go by: any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, racist, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. Obviously some of those are more difficult to define and/or enforce than others, but "weirdest places you've pissed" would hit vulgar and possibly obscene. I understand what you're getting at, but there are better ways of lightening the mood in OT and there are other forums where a topic like that is not inappropriate.

 

[RedRalph]

I understand you have ot stick to the charter... I just wish the enforcement of it couldnt use a more common sense approach. that thread wasnt going to offend anyone. It mightnt have been to many people taste, but no one was going to do anyhting more than gripe, and move on. there was a very reasonable thread closing yesterday, I'm not against censorship where appropriate. I just think even the few under-18s we have here arent going to complain about something with a mildly smutty tone.

 

[.Shane.]

and I wish the mods would stop being so victorian in their attitudes

As ID said... if you only knew...

Seriously, the problem is not the mods attitudes, but the posters.