Overall Civ Elimination Thread

[VicRatlhead5199]

Austria - 14
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
Carthage - 0 sorry to kill them. I liked them better in G&K. The extended trade routes in the early game are more of a liability than a benefit while there are barb ships popping up everywhere. Early harbors were better when they provided production. Both UUs are meh. Quinqueremes are mainly for exploration which triremes can do pretty well and the elephant is too expensive so early.
China - 25
Dutch - 10
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 10 The Candi and UA are both really strong uniques and the Kris Swordsman are better than they get credit for. Invulnerability and restlessness are two of the strongest promotions in the game. Churn out 8-10 Kris swordsmen, you'll get 2 bad ones, gift them to an enemy AI and laugh when they show up in battle or just gift them to a CS. You'll get 3 or 4 solid units and 3 or 4 nearly OP invulnerability or restlessness units that stick with you the rest of the game. I didn't like the Kris swordsman at first either but I'm happy I gave them a second chance.
Korea - 21
Maya - 27
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 23
Portugal - 19
Rome - 18
Shoshone - 21
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain - 11
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

 

[ehecatzin]

Austria - 14
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 10
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 10
Korea - 21
Maya - 28
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 23
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 21
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain - 11
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

I was about to kill Carthage for pretty much the same reasons.

Rome- I used to love playing Rome, but CiV has riddled wide empires and early warmongering with too many penalties. The Legion is really useful as well as the UA (tho it could use a bit of updating), however the lack of UB to help mantain a wide empire really hurts Rome.

I'd love too see Rome with a Forum UB that replaces the palace (and can be built on conquered capitals) that yields bonuses for each city connection, even more if it connect to another forum.

Maya- Now this is wide empire building done right, you are practicly garanteed a religion, science and free GP as well as an archer UU from the get go, Its one of few civs that can still go wide effectively despite the penalties.

 

[greygamer]

Arabia got dropped off the list ...again! Please be careful when copying the list, at this rate Arabia could win not on merit but because of being stealthy.

Arabia - 26
Austria - 14
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 10
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 10
Korea - 21
Maya - 28
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 23
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 21
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain - 11
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

 

[Dylan96B]

Arabia - 26
Austria - 14 (-3)
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 10
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 10
Korea - 21
Maya - 28 (+1)
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 23
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 21
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain - 11
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

Austria - voted them down for because purchasing city states is gimmicky. Not a fan of the hassar. Not to mention that woman is beyond annoying.

Maya - So strong. Can be played tall, of course. Can play wide, like a champ. Thanks to our Pyramid, you lock down a religion and can delay the library and make your Pyramid first. Can easily overwhelm a close neighbour. I spawned too close to Hiwatha last game. I stole his worker and camped some hills near by, with my warrior and scout. Pumped out 5 of their UU (chopped down 4 forrests), and bought 1 more. Hiwatha dead by turn 70, on Epic/Immortal. The free GP a few turns after Theology is amazing. Always a wonder to snap up.

 

[BrotherInJah]

Arabia - 26
Austria - 14
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 10 - 3 = 7
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 10
Korea - 21
Maya - 28
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 23
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 21
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain - 11 + 1 = 12
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

Spain - it's fun to play. UA is very random, some likes it some don't, i like it for the fun factor. UUs are very good.

Dutch - downvote not for what you get playing with them, but for what you get playing against them. AI never use it's UA, calculation for trade lux is the same as for other civ, they just don't realise of their UA.

 

[greygamer]

Arabia - 26
Austria - 14
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 7
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 10
Korea - 21
Maya - 28
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 20 What does the UA actually have to do with Poland?
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 21
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain - 13 UA works well with the Conquistador UU making the game interesting even if you start alone on a continent.
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

 

[BrotherInJah]

Poland - 20 What does the UA actually have to do with Poland?

Solidarity moved us from communism to capitalism. It's shown in game by adopting new social policies from time to time. I know that it is modern history but what civ have its UA that is accurate with their history from the beging to its end (or to this days)?

 

[bbbt]

Arabia - 26
Austria - 14
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 7
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 7 UB is good, UA is map dependant, UU is a coin toss with it's promotions
Korea - 21
Maya - 28
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 20
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 22UA and UU work well together for the start of the game
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain - 13
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

 

[rkade8583]

I have to agree with the Shoshone love. I play Celts and Shoshone because I love faith and I love defense... If only I could somehow combine the two

 

[Lights]

Ethiopia Faith (Stele) and Defense UA and UU. Here is your faith turtle civ

 

[greygamer]

Solidarity moved us from communism to capitalism. It's shown in game by adopting new social policies from time to time. I know that it is modern history but what civ have its UA that is accurate with their history from the beging to its end (or to this days)?

It just seems uninspired to me, on the other hand something that allows more flexibility within ideologies would fit your purpose

 

[ixias]

Arabia - 26
Austria - 14
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 7
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 7
Korea - 21+1=22
Maya - 28
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 20
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 22
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain - 13-3=10
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

Spain is either really good or just meh. I don't like a luck-based UA. The Tercio is actually pretty decent, but doesn't carry anything over once upgraded. Conquistador is decent, but it's ability usually doesn't get much use since most decent spots are settled at that point.

I've already stated why I think Korea is a top-tier Civ. Science is king and Korea does that very well. UUs are great for defending, but can even be used to conquer if that's your preference (the Turtle Ships can easily take a city with just a bit of range support).

 

[mposyncckh]

Arabia - 26
Austria - 14+1=15
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 7-3=4
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 7
Korea -22
Maya - 28
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 20
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 22
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain -10
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

My reasons for both remain unchanged. Please see previous post for explanations

 

[Vikings Diehard]

Arabia - 26 + 1 = 27
Austria - 15
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 4
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 7
Korea -22
Maya - 28
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 20
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 22
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain -10 - 3 = 7
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

Spain - Not impressed with the random element of the UA and not wowed by the UUs.

Arabia - Solid UU is in top 5 of UUs. UB Provides extra gold at a time when its really needed and the UA has been useful in the game settings and playstyle I use.

 

[Memoryjar]

Arabia - 27
Austria - 15
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 4 + 1 = 5 : Polders and Sea Beagars. Holland can't go before Indonesia. UA is usefull for looking for King day and keep some hapiness.
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 7 - 3 = 4. UA is great if maps have islands. UU would be good if it have no bad effect. And it have only one movement. I prefer build horseman. Candi is good but i prefer polders.
Korea -22
Maya - 28
Mongols - 14
Persia - 17
Poland - 20
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 22
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain -7
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

 

[greygamer]

Spain is either really good or just meh. I don't like a luck-based UA. The Tercio is actually pretty decent, but doesn't carry anything over once upgraded. Conquistador is decent, but it's ability usually doesn't get much use since most decent spots are settled at that point.

Apologies for the long post just skip to the last paragraph for the tl/dr version

The AI is actually quite slow to take advantage of Natural Wonders, it is almost like it doesn't see them at all. I recently had a game (standard size map) where I was alone on a continent with 1 natural wonder so it took until t150 to reach another continent, there were 3 unclaimed natural wonders 2 were not far from the borders of other civs. One was blocked by city states and of course you can always go to war to get them. I got 2 out of the 3 but had to fight hard to keep one of them, it was near Monty but gave +20gpt. He did capture that city eventually but promptly burned it down which suggests natural wonders are not import to the AI.

I have been running some Spain games to check on natural wonder availabilty. Despite some maps being terrible (they were bad whatever civ you would play), blocked in by mountains requiring Optics to explore further I continued until I found a Natural Wonder (if other AI were near I continued until I could settle it and adopted Honor policies along with more militaristic techs like archery and masonry)

Settings; Standard size, Continents, Standard pace, Difficulty Emperor
I settled in place, built 2 scouts then granary. I worked high food tiles first, and followed the Tradition Social Policy tree

01 Discovered Uluru turn 2 (+500 gold) +12 faith, +4 food - had to wait 6 turns to buy a settler

02 Discovered Mt Fuji turn 5 (+500 gold) 4 gold, 6 culture, 6 faith - had to wait 2 turns to buy a settler

03 Discovered Sri Pada turn 4 (+ 500 gold) 4 food, 8 faith, 4 happiness - had to wait 3 turns to buy a settler

04 Discovered Cerro de Potosi turn 14 (+100 gold) 20 gold, settled turn 36

05 Discovered Mt Fuji turn 9 (+ 100 gold) 4 gold, 6 culture, 6 faith - settled turn 25

06 Discovered Mt Kailash turn 78 (+100 gold) and next to the Persian border. This was a 'difficult' map requiring optics. Although I had enough gold to buy a settler it was in a location contested by the Persians and the Huns. It was however interesting

07 Discovered Mt Kilimanjaro turn 13 (+100 gold) 6 food, 4 culture - settled turn 40 despite being only 8 tiles from the Polynesian capital

08 Discovered Mt Kailash turn 51 (+100 gold) +12 faith, +4 food - settled turn 74 was only 9 tiles from the Chinese capital. Another difficult map requiring Optics to progress, interesting times ahead with the Chinese so close.

09 Discovered the Fountain of Youth on turn 4 (+500 gold) 20 happiness. Bought a settler turn 8, settled turn 14. Danish capital only 8 tiles away

10 Discovered Sri Pada turn 60 (+100 gold) 4 food, 8 faith, 4 happiness. Settled turn 76, French city 2nd city 6 tiles away. Also a 'difficult' map, was a bit like an Archipelago.

Of course this is a small sample size but I would say out of my 10 starts only 1 was terrible and 4 were brilliant. The rest were good enough that I would consider to have gained an advantage out of the UA. By building 2 scouts at the start I felt my results were not much worse than when I tried the Shoshone who people seem to think are the greatest. At least you can understand why I disagree with that.

TL/DR Spain should appeal to the explorers as well as satisfying the urge to go out and take by force. It certainly seems to lead into some interesting situations. It doesn't feel like the lottery civ it is often portrayed as. At Diety it will be more difficult to capitalise on the UA all of the time but the same is true of other civs currently with more votes.

 

[nationstate]

Arabia - 27
Austria - 15
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 5
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 1 UA is poor on pangea, UU requires resource and can get nerfed by bad promotions.
Korea -22
Maya - 28
Mongols - 15 Great warmongering civ. Best UU in game and Unique great person lasts entire game. Best UU combo in civ 5.
Persia - 17
Poland - 20
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 22
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain -7
Sweden - 21
Zulu - 21

 

[greygamer]

Indonesia UA is poor on pangea, UU requires resource and can get nerfed by bad promotions.

So don't pick Pangaea when you play as Indonesia ...why would you choose a map type that nullifies the UA of your Civ?
Oh I forgot

This is a forum game, any reasoning that has to do with gameplay is an appropriate answer.

On the other hand, totally agree with you about Genghis

Mongols Great warmongering civ. Best UU in game and Unique great person lasts entire game. Best UU combo in civ 5.

 

[Troll4Hire]

Good morning!

I've been trying to catch up lately, by trying to understand why certain civs have been voted out so early. During that process I've met the term "diplomatic suicide" more times than I can remember. If this thread is supposed to discuss and rank the civs/leaders in a totally general way, and not just on certain maps or under specific game settings, I find it unusual that so many posts are referring to warmongering is a "no-go" in the eyes of the AI - as the only reason to get rid of a civ. The AI players often detest warmongers, that's no doubt, but what about human players? I'm sure many of you played online not just a few games, and met the "bloodthirsty" player type, who DoWs your scout at the first possible situation just to leave your empire blind and set you back in exploration - or just because your spawn zone is close to his and he feels threatened - leaving you no chance to "be diplomatic" at all.

Or the other "extreme" approach, when an opponent goes full turtle, leaving the nearby city states without proper protection and "diplomatic consequences" in case they are getting obliterated by another civ - for example the Mongolian empire itself. Sure, these players' resting points are going to drop at other CS-s, but I don't think it's going to stop the self-proclaimed Khan from taking a couple more just to mess with civs which have bonuses relying on CS alliances.

That's why I'd like to add a point for Mongolia. Even tho' at first it was the random generator who made me play the civ, but I played my most challenging and fun multiplayer games as the head of the Horde. I only can suggest it, especially for those who consider bashing skulls as an always reliable solution.

And for the reasoning part - I think it's undeniable that it has one (or two) of the best UUs in game. The usefulness of the Keshiks is just far beyond expectations, not mentioning the fact that the general replacement unit can keep up with this ravaging army is just perfect. Plus having a UA which might not be the best, but still encourages organizing CS raids, well... in my opinion Mongolia has the flawless toolset to piss off players rollin' with civs like Sweden, Siam, Greece or even Austria or Venice. I'm not sure if the rules allow me to take a one point away from Sweden, Siam and Greece at the same time, so I'll just go for a -3 for Sweden.

So at the moment the list looks like this:

Arabia - 27
Austria - 15
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 5
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 1
Korea -22
Maya - 28
Mongols - 15 + 1 = 16
Persia - 17
Poland - 20
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 22
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain -7
Sweden - 21 - 3 = 18
Zulu - 21

 

[greygamer]

Good morning!

I've been trying to catch up lately, by trying to understand why certain civs have been voted out so early. During that process I've met the term "diplomatic suicide" more times than I can remember. If this thread is supposed to discuss and rank the civs/leaders in a totally general way, and not just on certain maps or under specific game settings, I find it unusual that so many posts are referring to warmongering is a "no-go" in the eyes of the AI - as the only reason to get rid of a civ. The AI players often detest warmongers, that's no doubt, but what about human players? I'm sure many of you played online not just a few games, and met the "bloodthirsty" player type, who DoWs your scout at the first possible situation just to leave your empire blind and set you back in exploration - or just because your spawn zone is close to his and he feels threatened - leaving you no chance to "be diplomatic" at all.

Or the other "extreme" approach, when an opponent goes full turtle, leaving the nearby city states without proper protection and "diplomatic consequences" in case they are getting obliterated by another civ - for example the Mongolian empire itself. Sure, these players' resting points are going to drop at other CS-s, but I don't think it's going to stop the self-proclaimed Khan from taking a couple more just to mess with civs which have bonuses relying on CS alliances.

That's why I'd like to add a point for Mongolia. Even tho' at first it was the random generator who made me play the civ, but I played my most challenging and fun multiplayer games as the head of the Horde. I only can suggest it, especially for those who consider bashing skulls as an always reliable solution.

And for the reasoning part - I think it's undeniable that it has one (or two) of the best UUs in game. The usefulness of the Keshiks is just far beyond expectations, not mentioning the fact that the general replacement unit can keep up with this ravaging army is just perfect. Plus having a UA which might not be the best, but still encourages organizing CS raids, well... in my opinion Mongolia has the flawless toolset to piss off players rollin' with civs like Sweden, Siam, Greece or even Austria or Venice. I'm not sure if the rules allow me to take a one point away from Sweden, Siam and Greece at the same time, so I'll just go for a -3 for Sweden.

You would be wise not to seek logical reasons for voting here, when I raised that particular question it was explained that this is a 'social game' and that maybe I should spend my time on the Strategy & Tips forum. I'm not really sure where the warmongering is suicide philosophy comes from, although some do mention early wars being a no-no (Ancient/Classical eras?). This might also be level dependant.

My Mongols usually seek 'donations' from the city states once the Keshiks start to appear. I'm always amused when the AI DoW me just as I get Chivalry as well.

Nice to see some support for the Mongols, I also got into them by accident so it might be that they are just an easy target for the no-war types.

My votes for today
Arabia - 27
Austria - 15
Aztec - 19
Babylon - 21
China - 25
Dutch - 5
England - 29
Ethiopia - 25
Germany - 20
Greece - 17
Inca - 19
Indonesia - 1
Korea -22
Maya - 28
Mongols - 16
Persia - 17
Poland - 20
Portugal - 19
Rome - 15
Shoshone - 19 I can get similar results from ruins by building an extra scout and never needed a defensive bonus to survive an onslaught so far. They are also annoying when an AI neighbour
Siam - 22
Songhai - 16
Spain -8 They are a lot of fun, see my earlier post for more detailed explaination http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12875014&postcount=278
Sweden - 18
Zulu - 21