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Overall single best node magic type?

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Strategy & Tips' started by strategynoob, Nov 8, 2010.

?

Best single all-around/stand-alone mana type in vanilla FFH2

  1. Air

    3.6%
  2. Body

    14.4%
  3. Chaos

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Death

    20.7%
  5. Earth

    4.5%
  6. Enchantment

    4.5%
  7. Entropy

    2.7%
  8. Fire

    14.4%
  9. Ice

    8.1%
  10. Law

    2.7%
  11. Life

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Metamagic

    12.6%
  13. Mind

    2.7%
  14. Nature

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. Shadow

    1.8%
  16. Spirit

    0.9%
  17. Sun

    3.6%
  18. Water

    2.7%
  1. strategynoob

    strategynoob Chieftain

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    OK, something else. Assuming that you're starting a new game of vanilla FFH and have one node real close to your starting position. And assuming you may not find a second node for a long time (or ever) without having to kill another race. Basically, all you know is that you have only this one node and may not be getting another soon.

    Is it fair to say that Earth is the best overall for utility for any and all of vanilla FFH's races/heroes? (Aside from Amurit firebows)

    I say this because all 3 levels of spells seem useful. The level 1 city wall spell...uh, might be fun at parties, level 2 stoneskin actually seems useful as a last-ditch defense, or if you wanna be a wiseguy, for XPing archmages and heroes past 100XP to have them finish off weakened stacks, and earth elementals are just awesomely solid, very powerful and unlike the death summons, they have full effect on infernals.
     
  2. Breunor

    Breunor Deity

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    I went with body. Go haste!

    Best wishes,

    Breunor
     
  3. Doug Piranha

    Doug Piranha Warlord

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    As is so often the case, the best answer is "it depends". If you're in the middle of a swath of desert, water can be pretty irresistible (spring+oasis=:)). If you're elves, fire is probably best. For Calabim, hard to go with anything but death. A lot depends on how the game is playing out, too: you can get several useful mana types from the shrines (including earth and water) and from unique features. If you have three of the four mana types needed to build one of the towers, it would probably be worth building the fourth, since each of the towers has pretty strong effects.
     
  4. Pickly

    Pickly Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
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    I picked Fire for the poll, although if it had multiple options I'd go with fire, death, and body, as these seem the most widely useful types of mana.

    Although, as mentioned in a previous post, just about all of them are useful in certain conditions.
     
  5. Breunor

    Breunor Deity

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    It is very encouraging that we have 4 different answers so far for four votes; I think from a game design standpoint, the game is better if the best mana types are situational and that one or a few aren't overpowered. in general.

    Best wishes,

    Breunor
     
  6. mcwill123

    mcwill123 Pretender to the Throne

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    I was going to vote for raw, because it's easier to convert to whatever you want. :)
     
  7. Goodwill

    Goodwill Warlord

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    It's a little like asking which unit is" the best" and about as useful...
     
  8. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    If you've got one mana node then a light magic strategy with Body/Enchantment is low entry cost and very effective. If you have lots of mana nodes then stack the Death high and use summoned spectres as the bulk of your army.
     
  9. strategynoob

    strategynoob Chieftain

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    I know lol :p I know magic is very situational in FFH2 and in very specific cases under very specific conditions, one type of magic can be totally dominant.

    I'm talking specifically about a situation where you're first starting out and all you know is that you have this one node nearby, and you assume that you won't get another one soon, or ever. You don't know how near or far your enemies are, how many nodes they have, if they're on coastal or land tiles, if they have any decent resources, etc. Knowing only that, what would you do, was the point of the poll.

    Verrry interestink. Haste IS a very useful spell and could probably help a lot for an early aggressive military start. I will have to experiment with that more. Yes.
     
  10. strategynoob

    strategynoob Chieftain

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    Also, for those who voted death, I originally agreed until I had Hyborem pop next to me in a couple games in a row. This is why I chose earth instead, since earth elementals do full(?) damage even to infernals, rather than death-based damage which specters and wraiths do (and infernals are immune or resistant to, I think).

    Death players, do we feel that the power of low-level skeleton spamming and/or the fear power of spectres in the early game is enough to push it over the edge? Just looking for some more insight heh.
     
  11. Clove

    Clove Chieftain

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    I voted for Law. This is because I don't pursue mage units all that much, and Law gives a flat 5% discount to upkeep cost.

    Also, if you only have the 1 mana node like the question posits, mage units are going to be kind of limited in their usefulness anyways. So maybe just skip the mages. :lol:

    A question for the experts: If I have 20 Law mana, does this mean my upkeep cost is now Zero?
     
  12. mcwill123

    mcwill123 Pretender to the Throne

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    If you have 20 law mana, it probably means you have the game locked up.
     
  13. Goodwill

    Goodwill Warlord

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    Body. It's highly situational based on your civ of course. Like with Luchirup I often go first with a second enchantment node for repair. But for most civs that use living units body is huge. Haste isn't just bigger movement for convenience, that extra move can let you attack and then retreat or with a longer range with mobility or mounted. And of course it really cuts down on travel time in enemy territory which means less time for the enemy to build more troops in the meantime. But then there's also regen which is pretty hot and cuts down on healing time or let's your units defend again at full strength that much sooner. I rarely bother much with flesh golem, too much work although a strong flying unit is always nice. To me though haste and regen are key. Earth is definitely an honorable mention too. And if I see my neighbor stocking up on fireball mages or ritualists, I try to build a few adepts with fire one for fireshield defenses.
     
  14. Jarrema

    Jarrema Master Voter

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    Hah. Then, it REALLY HEAVILY depends on what civ you play - what kinds of units you have and what mana your Palace gives to you.
    I voted for Earth. But, after thinking for a while, I would like to change it :mad:
    Because, when you are talking about situation like this, I assume that we are talking about early game, and then only first tier spells and an effect of mana itself (like bonus to research) should be taken into consideration. And wall of stone is far from useful IMHO.
    So, if I must pick one for the early game, I will go for enchantment, wih body at very close second place (and at first place for some civs)
     
  15. RFHolloway

    RFHolloway Analyst in the UK

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    I think it critically depends on your palace - if your palace provides fire mana then a second fire node will be extremely tempting, equally well air for maelstrom, (and maybe chaos for mutate if you also have a civ that can spam units.) Fire/water if you start in the swamp or desert, may be even enchantment if you are short on luxes
     
  16. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Deity

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    Metamagic; so you can change the node to anything else you want once you get your first mage. The node can then, over time, give you all types of magic.
     
  17. Azhral

    Azhral Let's get Tactical!

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    He did ask what was the best standalone mana type. With only the one type, I voted for Death. Personally I prefer either Enchantment or Life, but neither of those are particularly good on their own, and Enchantment especially is best when paired with another powerful mana type (like Death :p)

    I'm surprised nobody voted for Entropy to be honest. Rust is really overpowered, and possibly the single best Tier1 spell, simply because even if it gets resisted, and the target doesn't get the rusted promotion, it still loses its weapon promo. Pit beast is an average summon, but can be usefull in certain situations, and can level up! Withered is a nice spell. Not as much damage as some, but the horrible promo it attaches to enemies is awesome.
     
  18. Selrahc

    Selrahc Chieftain

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    If you're running a mana focussed game and you're only allowed one type of mana Death is the best. Spectre spam is just unbelievably powerful under the right leaders with the right nodes, and skeleton warriors are very nice situational units to plug the gap while waiting to tech to mages. And if you ever get to Strength of Will then *doubling* the number of archmages you can have, coupled with a none too shabby summon is a lot better than any other spell promotion in the game.

    If not pursuing a mana focussed strategy then body is the best support mana, and is one that its worth getting a good number of support adepts built to take advantage of.

    Maelstrom, Blinding Light, Rust, Enchanted Blade and Inspiration are all pretty stand out spells that make their mana well worth developing.
     
  19. cabbagemeister

    cabbagemeister Please wait...

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    The game is often won before you get to level 3 spells, so I would argue that level 1 and 2 spells are the most important. By that criteria, Death and Body are the best because have the best combination of Level 1 and 2 spells. Death has the only level 1 summon, and has far and away the best level 2 summon (fear + affinity). Body gives most units the equivalent of temporary Mobility and March promotions, which are two of the three most tactically effective promotions in the game (along with Commando).

    Fire / Air / Entropy all have only one effective spell at levels 1 and 2. That's why I'd put Death and Body head and shoulders above them.
     
  20. avalonnn

    avalonnn Prince

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    I usually build spirit first in order to get access to Sirona for the philosopher GPPs and the GP bonus.
     

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