Palmyra, Collab Mod
- Thread starter Firebug
- Start date
I think we are overthinking it. Let's go back to a more simple design, whilst keeping our old attributes.
UA: Pearl of the Desert
Gain production and GPPs (the GP with the most GPPs) in your capital when caravans end their turn in your borders. While at war, may build the unique units of civilizations you are sending a trade route to.
UU: I have no idea how to spell this plox help
Stronger (14 vs 12), but slower (3 vs 4). Gains +2 movement when starting it's turn on a trade route and starts with shock 1.
UI: Funerary Tower
May be built on flat desert tiles and on oasis. +1
, 
culture and 
faith. Whenever a great person is expended in the city working the tower it gains +1 culture.
It encourages trade and war. Also great people and culture.
UA: Pearl of the Desert
Gain production and GPPs (the GP with the most GPPs) in your capital when caravans end their turn in your borders. While at war, may build the unique units of civilizations you are sending a trade route to.
UU: I have no idea how to spell this plox help
Stronger (14 vs 12), but slower (3 vs 4). Gains +2 movement when starting it's turn on a trade route and starts with shock 1.
UI: Funerary Tower
May be built on flat desert tiles and on oasis. +1
, culture and faith. Whenever a great person is expended in the city working the tower it gains +1 culture.It encourages trade and war. Also great people and culture.
Firebug
Not-so Great Engineer
Well its just another thing to add to a long list of ideas.
and anyway, you don't need to trade to get the first half of the UA, the caravan just needs to pass through tiles you own. (which is why you capture territory)
I think we are overthinking it. Let's go back to a more simple design, whilst keeping our old attributes.
UA: Pearl of the Desert
Gain production and GPPs (the GP with the most GPPs) in your capital when caravans end their turn in your borders. While at war, may build the unique units of civilizations you are sending a trade route to.
UU: I have no idea how to spell this plox help
Stronger (14 vs 12), but slower (3 vs 4). Gains +2 movement when starting it's turn on a trade route and starts with shock 1.
UI: Funerary Tower
May be built on flat desert tiles and on oasis. +1
It encourages trade and war. Also great people and culture.
I like it this simple. But i'm still not sure about the exacts. Instead of gaining GPP points in general maybe it should be Great Merchants? i like the thing of gaining the units of your trade partners.
The Funerary Tower is nice, although the food doesn't make much sense (why are you eating dead people!?) but i guess you have to give up realism for gameplay.
DJSHenninger has put a lot of work into the tower UI, but i think the more i see the Funerary Tower appear in designs the less it seems to fit. We could look into the Tariff Court UB.
I think we are overthinking it. Let's go back to a more simple design, whilst keeping our old attributes.
UI: Funerary Tower
May be built on flat desert tiles and on oasis. +1
I won't press the issue too long but how do people feel about a Date Palm Plantation instead? We already have Moai which sort of represent stone monuments build as UIs.
The date palm plantation could be built on flat desert tiles adjacent to cities and oasis.
That would cover the issue with lack of food from a Funerary tower
Firebug
Not-so Great Engineer
That isn't strictly Palmyrene thing though. Tomb Towers are unique to Palmyra.
Chrisy15
Flower, Beautiful
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Clibanarii aren't unique to Palmyra either, though. Maybe you could use the Tariff Court and the Funerary Tower (which is crucial, IMO, since it started this whole thread), and then treat the enemy unique units as the civ's military assets.
Firebug
Not-so Great Engineer
That makes sense actually. No unique unit, instead using the enemy's (or allies' according to how we do it)
Urdnot_Scott
Sultan
I object in a big way to that, it sounds like a pain to code, it's not simple at all, it's irritating to use unless you know exactly what unique everybody in the game uses, which not everybody does, it doesn't represent Palmyra in my opinion and it leads overwhelmingly to situations that aren't Palmyrene in any way: what's Palmyrene about an army of caroleans?
Also no UU is just straight up bad design imo
Also no UU is just straight up bad design imo
Ironically, it would fit Rome quite well.
Skaz881
History Major
I like the first half of the UA as it stands, simple but effective. The part about using other's UU's though sounds like a lua nightmare.
Chrisy15
Flower, Beautiful
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I too was uncertain when I first saw the second part of the UA. Perhaps a unique Great General?
UU: Strategoi
Replaces Great General
Provides +15XP for units built in a city it is stationed in
May upgrade the City level with CID
Source 1
Source 2
Then, the Tariff Court could then feature in a decision.
But yeah, Civ makes it really hard to design an empire that formed through conquest of an older one, or through rebellion.
UU: Strategoi
Replaces Great General
Provides +15XP for units built in a city it is stationed in
May upgrade the City level with CID
Source 1
Source 2
Then, the Tariff Court could then feature in a decision.
But yeah, Civ makes it really hard to design an empire that formed through conquest of an older one, or through rebellion.
No offense, but that is a really bland and boring Great General. Most people do not use CID, and it is basically designed for people that do.
Chrisy15
Flower, Beautiful
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I'm not sure if there's anything to it if you do use CID :/
I was more trying to make the point that there are other options for components - AFAIK, all the designs up until this week or so have all used the same components.
Firebug
Not-so Great Engineer
UA: Pearl of the Desert: When a caravan ends its turn in your borders gain Production in the Capital. Merchant specialists yield +2 Food. Gain a Free Military unit whenever a Great Merchant is born.
UU: Clibanarii (Horseman) - Higher strength (15 v 12) and ignores terrain costs when in Desert. However, it is more expensive.
UI: Tomb Tower - Available at Masonry and only buildable on desert. Yields +1 happiness, faith and culture. Whenever a great person is expended in the city working the tower it gains +1 culture.
The UA gives you a production boost in the capital, since Palmyra is the focus of the Civilization (Rather then the empire that only lasted 3 years) i think its suitable it gains the main bonus. This will help with production of buildings that contain the Merchant specialists (for food) and wonders that produce Great Merchants (for the free unit).
The UU is strong, capable of roaming deserts (to protect your trade routes and land) and taking on non-spearman units and other horseman units. (Except the cataphract that has 1 more combat strength). EDIT: DJSHenninger just pointed out that desert rough terrain isn't that common, making this UU quite pointless. I'm bad at UUs, so this one needs a lot of work.
the UI doesn't fit synergise with the rest of the civilization but fits the Palmyra theme quite well. It will secure you a religion by being one of the earliest unique improvements available, make use of useless desert tiles, and give you culture and happiness (which are both always useful). The happiness comes from the idea that i think everyone would be happy to know their loved ones are well protected after life. The Happiness will just generally help with keeping your number of cities high, so you can take advantage of the first half of the UA by expanding borders. And also to counteract unhappiness from merchant specialists.
The faith could also be used to purchase Great Merchants if you go down the policy tree that unlocks it.
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I think this represents Palmyra well. The first half the UA is their control of nearby trade and their investment into city building using this trade. The second part is Merchants being the main source of food, because even with fertile lands they didn't produce enough food to sustain the population and had to import it. Then finally, Merchants would be supplied Military protection by Patrons in the city. So this represents a Great Merchant being hired protection by their Patron in the city.
The UU represents the bulk of the Military force of Palmyra during their Empire years. They were heavy cavalry that were fearsome for the Romans to fight. One Roman General decided to order his troops not to engage after seeing the size of their armour. The desert speed is made up just to fit the civilization, because in reality they were slow. I also didn't want them to be a carbon copy of Cataphracts by reducing their speed.
The Tomb Towers are unique to Palmyra (in real life) so its suitable to make a unique improvement in Civ. The faith is because burial was basically always a religious thing in the ancient times, the culture is of course because its a very cultural thing nowadays, and the happiness is just suitable for the mechanics of the game.
I think this design is simple, represents the civilization well, and i think this should be considered as the near final design. If you want to submit another design i ask that you do not stray too far from this. There are now 14 pages, and months of ideas in this thread and it will never end if we don't try to bring a stop to the number of ideas being brought in. Collaboration is great, but its slowing the process of Civ Modding drastically. Please respect that this has been going on for a while and some of us (mainly me) are growing impatient with the amount of time this would take in comparison to one of my usual mods. We don't need a million more varients of Palmyra, and i'm sure you're having fun with it, but this is growing tiresome.
UU: Clibanarii (Horseman) - Higher strength (15 v 12) and ignores terrain costs when in Desert. However, it is more expensive.
UI: Tomb Tower - Available at Masonry and only buildable on desert. Yields +1 happiness, faith and culture. Whenever a great person is expended in the city working the tower it gains +1 culture.
The UA gives you a production boost in the capital, since Palmyra is the focus of the Civilization (Rather then the empire that only lasted 3 years) i think its suitable it gains the main bonus. This will help with production of buildings that contain the Merchant specialists (for food) and wonders that produce Great Merchants (for the free unit).
The UU is strong, capable of roaming deserts (to protect your trade routes and land) and taking on non-spearman units and other horseman units. (Except the cataphract that has 1 more combat strength). EDIT: DJSHenninger just pointed out that desert rough terrain isn't that common, making this UU quite pointless. I'm bad at UUs, so this one needs a lot of work.
the UI doesn't fit synergise with the rest of the civilization but fits the Palmyra theme quite well. It will secure you a religion by being one of the earliest unique improvements available, make use of useless desert tiles, and give you culture and happiness (which are both always useful). The happiness comes from the idea that i think everyone would be happy to know their loved ones are well protected after life. The Happiness will just generally help with keeping your number of cities high, so you can take advantage of the first half of the UA by expanding borders. And also to counteract unhappiness from merchant specialists.
The faith could also be used to purchase Great Merchants if you go down the policy tree that unlocks it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this represents Palmyra well. The first half the UA is their control of nearby trade and their investment into city building using this trade. The second part is Merchants being the main source of food, because even with fertile lands they didn't produce enough food to sustain the population and had to import it. Then finally, Merchants would be supplied Military protection by Patrons in the city. So this represents a Great Merchant being hired protection by their Patron in the city.
The UU represents the bulk of the Military force of Palmyra during their Empire years. They were heavy cavalry that were fearsome for the Romans to fight. One Roman General decided to order his troops not to engage after seeing the size of their armour. The desert speed is made up just to fit the civilization, because in reality they were slow. I also didn't want them to be a carbon copy of Cataphracts by reducing their speed.
The Tomb Towers are unique to Palmyra (in real life) so its suitable to make a unique improvement in Civ. The faith is because burial was basically always a religious thing in the ancient times, the culture is of course because its a very cultural thing nowadays, and the happiness is just suitable for the mechanics of the game.
I think this design is simple, represents the civilization well, and i think this should be considered as the near final design. If you want to submit another design i ask that you do not stray too far from this. There are now 14 pages, and months of ideas in this thread and it will never end if we don't try to bring a stop to the number of ideas being brought in. Collaboration is great, but its slowing the process of Civ Modding drastically. Please respect that this has been going on for a while and some of us (mainly me) are growing impatient with the amount of time this would take in comparison to one of my usual mods. We don't need a million more varients of Palmyra, and i'm sure you're having fun with it, but this is growing tiresome.
I really like it! Just a nitpick, maybe the Merchant specialists should yield something like +2 food and +1 culture, because as of now its a little all over the place.
Also, it should be worded like:
UA: Pearl of the Desert
When a caravan ends its turn in your borders gain Production in the Capital. Merchant specialists yield +2 Food, and gain a Free Military unit whenever a Great Merchant is born.
Also, it should be worded like:
UA: Pearl of the Desert
When a caravan ends its turn in your borders gain Production in the Capital. Merchant specialists yield +2 Food, and gain a Free Military unit whenever a Great Merchant is born.
Urdnot_Scott
Sultan
Isn't food from merchants the kilwa ua?
Chrisy15
Flower, Beautiful
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- Messages
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Merchant specialists need something, though; otherwise it wouldn't be worth generating them for the UA.
I kind of disagree; If you need merchants, generate them.
Alternatively, we could make it that trade routes ending in your territory also give great merchant points.
I think UAs should never have more than 2 separate things going on.
