Paternity Leave

Winston Hughes

Wrathful Warlock
Retired Moderator
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
4,753
Location
A state of unquenchable rage
Taking advantage of a recent change in UK employment law, I am about to spend 6 months on paternity leave, looking after my baby son whilst my wife goes back to work. The deal is that, since she is entitled to a year's maternity leave, I can take any portion of that in her place, and my employer is obliged to keep my job available for when I return in September. Though I won't be getting a salary during this period, I should be entitled to some amount of statutory paternity pay for the first 2-3 months.

As to the reasons... Career-wise, my wife is far more driven (not to mention vastly more competent) than I am, and the fact that she earns several times what I do makes it a no-brainer for our finances. We both feel that, given the choice, it's too early for the boy to go into a nursery full-time. I'm also quite keen to do it just so as to get to know him better, and, while I'm sure I'll miss my job, I'm very much looking forward to the new experiences and challenges to come.

One interesting thing I've noticed already, however, is the differing attitudes to my 'baby holiday' (as my wife insists on calling it) that I've encountered amongst the people I've told. Several of the fathers have said "Man, I wish I could've done that", and a few of the younger guys have expressed a desire to do likewise, should the chance arise. Most others have said that they wouldn't want to do it themselves, but even they haven't given the impression that they see anything wrong with it. Amongst the women I've told, on the other hand, there have been quite a few who seemed rather less than impressed. A couple have said right out that they don't think it's a man's role to look after children, and many others have focused on how difficult it's going to be, both for me and my wife. I don't assume for a second that the people I've talked to are representative of the population at large. But, in my own social and professional environment, it certainly seems as if the females are less enthused by the idea than the males.

So, moving to the point, how does the hive-mind of OT view my new role? What does it say about modern attitudes to gender, parenthood and employment that such changes to the law are taking place? Are those women right to think maybe there's something wrong with this? Has anyone here been a stay-at-home dad, or known someone else who has? Can I consider myself a 'real man' anymore? Will I start turning mumsy? :scared:
 
I think it's fine.
Regarding the people you've talked to, women are no more immune to dumb, blind adherence to tradition than men are, so it's not surprising some of them think that way.
 
Females are less enthused? I would think women would appreciate dads taking a more active role in infant care. All the women I know definitely appreciate it. My wife appreciated it, certainly.

I took a month for paternity leave, and it was very helpful for my wife and for me and for my bonding experience. I would recommend that every new dad take some time off and get their hands dirty.

The idea that men shouldn't take an active role in taking care of kids, especially newborns, is old fashioned IMHO.
 
well congrats on the brat!

babies poop and cry so I don't see why that needs a woman rather than a man. And US infants ~40% have any breastfeeding at the 6 month mark so not like that is a big factor (early infant like first 2 months probably can have regular breastfeeding; though there is also the stuff like breast pumps or formula, as only 40% of kids do exclusive breastfeeding at 1 month mark)
 
Hell for six months off I'll even wear a dress and refer to myself as Sally. While all the guys that would laugh at me are hard at work I'll be chilling. I mean babies eat, poop, cry and sleep. Most of the time they lie around. When I was at my cousins place I would just sit the kid on my lap and play civ. Easy.

I think the unpaid thing would hurt though. Paid leave without a second thought. You'll see me next February.
 
congratulations

enjoy it, but don't tell too many women how easy and good at it you are, MOTHERHOOD the last sacred ideal, don't threaten it
 
Those women are archaic and backwards looking. They probably wanted to be smacked like their culture dictates. I would thoroughly enjoy taking a paternity leave
 
Females are less enthused? I would think women would appreciate dads taking a more active role in infant care. All the women I know definitely appreciate it. My wife appreciated it, certainly.

Those who complain fear the competition! :p

No, really, most women seem to desire very much to care for their children. They may be scared at the idea of men taking the time off to do it instead of women, should it apply to them.
 
I believe in Sweden men must either take paternity leave or face a penalty of some sort imposed by the government. Big government at work there.
 
Hmmm... so, just spit-balling here, but do you have to be married to the mother to get Paternity Leave? Does it matter if you have several baby-mammas? What I'm getting at is... could I take eternal Paternity Leave if I knocked up different baby-mammas every six months?

Assuming I time it right, of course.
 
Not in the US, I'm not sure we even offer paid maternity leave, let alone paternity leave.
 
my thoughts? Pure envy. That's one of the things I really, really don't like in Switzerland. There's no such thing in place here. I would have loved to take some time off to look after our kids, but it just wasn't possible.

The state mandated paternity leave in Switzerland is 1 day :ack:

I'm lucky enough to have an employer who's really progressive (by swiss standards) in this regard, extending it to a week paid leave. Furthermure, I'd be theoretically able to take one year of unpaid leave too. The problem is, my pay is quite a bit higher than my wife's was, it would have been hard to live on hers alone.

Regarding attitudes, I haven't seen any differences in genders towards men who look after their children myself. The main difference I've seen is between generations (grandparents excepted, they're usually delighted - but then they're delighted by everything that has to do with their grandchildren ;))

In any case, I hope you enjoy your paternity leave :goodjob:

I believe in Sweden men must either take paternity leave or face a penalty of some sort imposed by the government. Big government at work there.
That sounds like a myth to me.
 
So, moving to the point, how does the hive-mind of OT view my new role? What does it say about modern attitudes to gender, parenthood and employment that such changes to the law are taking place? Are those women right to think maybe there's something wrong with this? Has anyone here been a stay-at-home dad, or known someone else who has? Can I consider myself a 'real man' anymore? Will I start turning mumsy? :scared:

Living in glorious homofascist/social democrat Scandinavia, and having two young kids, of course I've been there. Actually I'm currently doing it on a part-time basis, see below.

The way the system works here, is you get a total of 47 weeks' worth of leave at full pay, or optionally 57 weeks at 80% of full pay, to be divided among the parents. The cost of this is covered by the public social security system [1]. In either case the leave starts three weeks before the due date. The constraints on the division is that the first nine weeks can only be taken by the mother and the father has to take at least 12 weeks at some point (or those weeks are lost) [2]. But, and this is the brilliant part, I don't have to take 12 weeks all at once, but can instead portion out my paternity leave over a longer period of time, as long as I'm done before the kid's third birthday. I'm taking it one day per week, that way it'll last well over a year.

Our reason for doing it this way is that we don't want our #2 kid to start nursery school until he's 2; my wife went back to work after he turned 1 (yes, she had to take a little unpaid leave on top of her paid leave to make up the difference; this is very common and is a legally established right) but she works a lot of evenings and nights, and usually only one regular office-hours day per week (which is the day I take my leave). Since my job also has fairly liberal flexitime rules (I'm a programmer and it doesn't matter much what time of day I do my tasks) we can arrange things so that at least one adult is home at any given time.

The prevailing attitude about paternity leave, at least in most workplaces, is that it's an expected and normal thing to do although it is still much more common for mothers than fathers to be gone for truly significant spans of time (as in long enough to bother with hiring a temp worker to fill in [3]). I certainly don't feel any less like a real man just because I'm a part-time diaper attendant; I can still deadlift over 200 kg on a good day.

[1] Actually the "full pay" covered by the public system is capped at some fairly reasonable level which is somewhat less than my actual salary, but many employers make up the difference (this would be part of the standard benefits offered under their terms of employment). The Norwegian state (for which I work) is one such employer and so are all the municipal governments (for which my wife works).

[2] They're apparently changing the system a little starting this year, so that each parent will have to take one-third of the leave and only the last third can be divided as they wish.

[3] Such fill-in posiitons are long-established as one of the standard ways for people fresh out of school to start their careers; you might not have the experience employers want for a permanent job, but you'll do for a year or six months of filling in for someone on leave; do that up to several times and now you do have the experience... (actually where I work, almost more often than not, such temp workers end up being offered permanent jobs after the absentee returns, because usually someone else will have retired or quit permanently so there's a vacancy, or if not then very often the budget will have been expanded to accommodate another employee, and by then the temp worker has learned the ropes and has presumably proved to be a functional member of the team).
 
Taking advantage of a recent change in UK employment law, I am about to spend 6 months on paternity leave
Ah that explains your return to OT

----


I think it is a great idea. I don't see having a baby as a lesser experience than keeping advancing once career. So the choice is up to you and if that is what makes you happy, awesome for you.
 
I don't assume for a second that the people I've talked to are representative of the population at large. But, in my own social and professional environment, it certainly seems as if the females are less enthused by the idea than the males.

So, moving to the point, how does the hive-mind of OT view my new role? What does it say about modern attitudes to gender, parenthood and employment that such changes to the law are taking place? Are those women right to think maybe there's something wrong with this? Has anyone here been a stay-at-home dad, or known someone else who has? Can I consider myself a 'real man' anymore? Will I start turning mumsy? :scared:

I would love to be able to afford to take time off like that, but our savings just can't survive that sort of thing. And there's no city, state, nor federal benefits for paternity leave. For that matter, even our employers don't offer anything, since both of us are a sort of freelancer. I'm a full-time seasonal employee (I'm guaranteed 36 weeks of work), and she works on a project-by-project basis. Both of us are in a union (the same INternational, but different Locals), and there's no support there. However, that's going to change soon. My local is in the process of designing and funding a parental leave benefit.

As for attitudes, I haven't seen anything against paternity leave - everyone I know, male and female, think that the US system is garbage, and both parents should be able to take many weeks of, paid by the government.
 
If you need help acclimatising to days filled with non-stop infantile wailing, OT is just a few clicks away. :)
 
Back
Top Bottom