[RD] People in the developed world without developed world conveniences

[stfoskey12]

I know that is sort of a long thread title, but I find it odd how there remains a handful of people in the developed world who lack things like electricity and running water. It's definitely a small percentage (probably not more than 0.5% in the U.S., limited to extremely rural and poor areas, as well as homeless people who don't stay in shelters), but it's not zero. There are a number of Indian reservations that aren't fully electrified, and I've heard stories of extremely poor people living in trailers that aren't hooked up to the electric grid or a well/septic system. I'm not sure how hard it is for people to leave that sort of situation. Does anyone know how it is in countries outside the U.S.?

 

[Bamspeedy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

US isn't so bad compared to Europe as I've been led to believe over the years in this forum. Could be the American homeless gets more attention for various reasons.
I haven't looked into it too much, but to give Europeans the benefit of the doubt in their arguments, it's possible the US homeless population is more long-term and European is more short-term (the wiki list is only the population on any given night), but the "Homelessness in Europe is practically non-existant compared to the US" is BS.

 

[Broken_Erika]

There's also all the survivalists who live "Off the Grid" in cabins in the middle of nowhere with no power or running water.

 

[Ryika]

Unless you're willing to override a person's freedom to make choices of their own, you're never going to get rid of homelessness entirely, because there are some people who cannot, and do not want to, be a part of the normal society, and for whom any help you offer is not much more than a burden. As weird as it might sound, there are some people for whom homelessness is the "best" option they have available to them, people who do not even want to spend time in a homeless shelter if they don't absolutely have to. All you can do in such cases is to offer the infrastructure required to make sure they can live as safe as possible.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

US isn't so bad compared to Europe as I've been led to believe over the years in this forum. Could be the American homeless gets more attention for various reasons.
I haven't looked into it too much, but to give Europeans the benefit of the doubt in their arguments, it's possible the US homeless population is more long-term and European is more short-term (the wiki list is only the population on any given night), but the "Homelessness in Europe is practically non-existant compared to the US" is BS.

I can't say anything about Europe, but I know that any number put on homelessness in the US is produced by the well known process of pulling it out of someone's ass. Not suggesting that I have any workable solution to the problem of how to accurately count the homeless, because I don't...but I'd rather admit that I don't than pretend there is any clue about the numbers.

 

[civvver]

My inlaws had a 30 in crt tv from the year 2000 until they moved last year and bought new stuff. 55 in 4k samsung, still way too small and cheap for their awesome house. Million dollar house, $500 tv. Seems right.

Oh wait you meant like electricity? Nope, everyone I know has that.

 

[really]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

US isn't so bad compared to Europe as I've been led to believe over the years in this forum. Could be the American homeless gets more attention for various reasons.
I haven't looked into it too much, but to give Europeans the benefit of the doubt in their arguments, it's possible the US homeless population is more long-term and European is more short-term (the wiki list is only the population on any given night), but the "Homelessness in Europe is practically non-existant compared to the US" is BS.

It is very hard to count and compare homelessness - some will call anyone sleeping in a homeless shelter or temporary accommodation as homeless, others will only count those sleeping rough and they all miss people sleeping on friends or families couches. The above list is mixing those methods.

 

[Farm Boy]

Oh wait you meant like electricity? Nope, everyone I know has that.

Find a library, visit regularly, and take notice of who heavily consumes the computer access as a matter of habit(little harder with people just using the wifi, but it's still mostly legit). Libraries totally have regulars. Good place to start when you're looking for the section of the population that's finding it difficult to keep up with the 2018 standard utility package of high speed internet and devices to consume it on. Easy to miss right on the street next to you.

Much harder yet to run into people who've fallen off the rural electrification grid unless you leave the beaten paths. Not sure how many people are in arrears at any given time on their power bills.

 

[civvver]

Find a library, visit regularly, and take notice of who heavily consumes the computer access as a matter of habit(little harder with people just using the wifi, but it's still mostly legit). Libraries totally have regulars. Good place to start when you're looking for the section of the population that's finding it difficult to keep up with the 2018 standard utility package of high speed internet and devices to consume it on. Easy to miss right on the street next to you.

I've heard stats that like 90% of poor people only get internet through their phone.

The funny part about my in laws is they had blazing fast internet they never used and the full cable tv package with hbo, showtime, a zillion channels, all in hd, which they never watched all on that crappy tv. Probably spending $200+ a month for it on a 20 year old tv. Even at their new place with the smart tv they still rent videos through the cable on demand instead of subscribing to netflix or something.

 

[Farm Boy]

Heheh, yeah. My wife got us Netflix. I never get through anything. Everything trending is a series, which winds up being like a really slow, #*$&ty, movie in the age of binging. I still check movies out. I occasionally have to wait a day or two for them to show up, but they have about everything I could want, I pay the taxes anyways, and when I invariably forget to return them on time it's still way cheaper than Redbox or a subscription.

But I digress, blearg.

 

[Kyriakos]

There are Roma in most of Europe. Afaik they don't want to live outside their settlements.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

Spain has actual slums, like those you’d more often find in its former colonies. I presume homelessness and informal housing is more common in the Mediterranean than western or northern Europe.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Spain has actual slums, like those you’d more often find in its former colonies. I presume homelessness and informal housing is more common in the Mediterranean than western or northern Europe.

Not having to worry about long cold winters probably has something to do with it.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

There are reserves in Canada where there's no running water. Some have running water, but it's contaminated. In some places this has gone on for decades. Throwing money at it doesn't seem to help.

I've lived without electricity and running water, and would much prefer not to. It was one thing when it was at my grandfather's cabin; we had coal oil lamps in the evening, and water either from a well or from the lake (which had to be boiled). We made occasional trips to the nearest city to stock up on drinking water that didn't need to be boiled. Plumbing was nonexistent; the bathroom was an outhouse across the road. But this situation was voluntary and temporary and in the middle of summer in a region of British Columbia where it's never cold in summer (we had a wood stove for heat and cooking).

It's not pleasant, on the other hand, to try to cope with no heat in May. I had to learn a few tricks, such as putting a layer of newspaper between the blankets. I can't imagine trying to cope with this in winter.


Next to that, the years of doing without TV seems trivial. That resulted in a change in my TV habits. It's only during this past year that I've really gotten back into a TV habit. There are years' worth of series I've either never heard of, or heard of them but never bothered to watch. Now I'm indulging in Star Trek - old episodes I haven't seen in 10-15 years, and in the case of Enterprise, episodes I've never seen.

I got rid of Netflix last year when my account was compromised (their security is at fault, not mine).

I've never had a cell phone, but may have to. Too many things seem to depend on having those damned things, and I've missed out on some stuff on Kijiji because the poster insists on "texting only" and I have no way to do that.

 

[Arwon]

Not having to worry about long cold winters probably has something to do with it.

Spain's interior is very elevated, the second highest country in Europe after Switzerland, and cities like Madrid and Zaragoza get regularly below zero in winter. Remember that Madrid is as far north as New York, and is away from the ocean and 700m since sea level.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Spain's interior is very elevated, the second highest country in Europe after Switzerland, and cities like Madrid and Zaragoza get regularly below zero in winter. Remember that Madrid is as far north as New York, and is away from the ocean and 700m since sea level.

I was thinking more of the parts with a Mediterranean climate(I.E. closer to the south-eastern coast)....It made sense to me when i posted it, does anyone have any info on where the slums usually are?

 

[Bootstoots]

Spain's interior is very elevated, the second highest country in Europe after Switzerland, and cities like Madrid and Zaragoza get regularly below zero in winter. Remember that Madrid is as far north as New York, and is away from the ocean and 700m since sea level.

I just checked their climate. Given the latitude, elevation, and inland location, I'm surprised it's as warm in winter as it is. Looks like not only is their average low a little above freezing, but the record low is just -10 C - well above that of e.g. Houston, Mobile, or Jacksonville, which are ten degrees further south. Granted, it would still be unpleasant and somewhat dangerous to be exposed to the elements somewhere with an average January low just above freezing, but I keep forgetting just how stable and mild the temperatures are in Western Europe.

 

[Kyriakos]

(Euro) Med Winter always gets below zero. This isn't the tropics
I also doubt there are slums. Roma stuff not included, of course, cause that is of their own making and choice.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I always found it weird how in Sim City 4 (and possibly other versions, not played others) you didn't need to provide running water for anything other than the very high income areas. Anyone else was happy with no water. But disconnect the electricity and even the rats moved out.

I genuinely wondered for a long time if not having running water is just a regular thing in the US because of this game.

 

[Lexicus]

I just checked their climate. Given the latitude, elevation, and inland location, I'm surprised it's as warm in winter as it is. Looks like not only is their average low a little above freezing, but the record low is just -10 C - well above that of e.g. Houston, Mobile, or Jacksonville, which are ten degrees further south. Granted, it would still be unpleasant and somewhat dangerous to be exposed to the elements somewhere with an average January low just above freezing, but I keep forgetting just how stable and mild the temperatures are in Western Europe.

My guess is they cheat by being surrounded by ocean. Even though all the cities you listed are coastal, north and west of them is the bulk of North American continent, and the record lows are probably happening when Arctic air blasts down across the continental interior. North and west of Madrid is....the Atlantic.