Petition to add Poland

As I see it, Firaxis decides which civs to implement based on the following criteria:

a) historical importance
b) amount of potential customers in the country
c) amount of civs from the same area already in the game

a) is the reason for civs like Egypt, Mongolia, or Persia. b) is the reason for civs like the Vikings or Celts (the two together subsume most countries in northern and western Eurooe that didn't get a civ of their own). c) is the reason for civs like Mali, and also the reason why civs like Austria aren't included (Europe is overrepresented already, and germany is already in).

So how does Poland hold up to these criteria? Let's see:

a) historical importance: While Poland certainly is no insignificant country, I don't think that it's important enough to warrant its inclusion. There are countries which had more impact on history, and which aren't included yet, eg. Babylon or Austria.

b) possible customers: This may be a point, as Eastern Europe is a rapidly growing market for computer games. However, Poland is only a part of this market. I think the markets in Brazil, the Netherlands, Portugal, or Belgium are bigger (but that's a guess, it would be interesting to have actual numbers).

c) diversity of eras and areas: While Europe itself is well represented already, *Eastern* Europe actually isn't. Russia, as the obvious choice, is of course included, but that's it for Eastern Europe.

Altogether, I think that a point for the inclusion of *something* Eastern European can be made: There is a growing number of customers in that area, and it's not represented already.

However, I don't think that Firaxis will actually include Poland, because it represents too small a part of this area and these potential customers. Also, there seems to be a strong rivalry among Eastern European nations (at least from what I see, I might be wrong on this one). I've seen other games where users from Eastern European country were constantly moaning that users from another country were being favoured, that they themselves were being shorthanded, etc. Including one Eastern European nation while not including others might actually hurt Firaxis more than they gain from it.

But the real reason why I don't see Poland being added is that there is an obvious better choice for Firaxis. I'm convinced that they will sooner or later add the Slavs.

Like the vikings subsume all of Scandinavian historical importance and potential customers, the Slavs subsume most of Eastern Europe's. They are the perfect choice to give the people of Poland, Czech, Serbia, Croatia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Bulgaria etc. a civ to identify with (even Ukrainians and Belarussians who don't want to identify with Russia). They are also the most politically correct choice as they don't prefer one Eastern Europe nation over another (only Hungary and Romania would be shorthanded).

So that's my conclusion: The Slavs will eventually appear in Civ. Poland won't.
 
I think it comes down to:
a) Historical prominence
b) Name recognition / Cool Factor.

A) is obviously subject to bias, and probably derived from B).
 
I am sorry for my English.

Russians
Why to add Russian civilization? Despite they curently have largest territory they were always considered as colossus on clay legs. Not too many famous people, not too many wars won. Anyway, if Americans are in game, Russians must be too, to give American buyers possibility to win over Russians :)
Not too many famous people???? It is a joke?
Not too many wars won???? It is a joke too??

1243-1480 constrained Golden Horde, saving that the Europe
WW2 - If not the USSR, to the world would come the end.
These are two largest victories which have influenced all history of mankind. Owing to other victories Russia has increased the territory till the sizes of the 1/6 part of a land.
Russia possesses the world's largest reconnoitered stocks of natural gas and the second place on stocks of oil.
In Russia one of the best (and on many positions the best) the weapon in the world is made.
Russian theatre and opera - are recognized by all world.

Great people:

Dostoevsky
Pushkin
Tolstoy
Sholokhov
Mendeleyev
Pavlov
Sakhorov
Lomonosov
Kulibin
Kalashnikov
Korolev
Gagarin
Tereshkova
Zhukov
Stalin
Ivan IV
Peter I

Approximately 50 % of all Nobel winners have Russian roots. Even in Einstein the Odessa blood flows.

This list can be continued still very much and very long.

MuXa.

Service Pack 1 :)
 
Yeah, yeah, especially here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kircholm
:lol: :lol:
"The battle was decided in 20 minutes by the devastating charge of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth cavalry, the Winged Hussars"

Yeah, ha ha (*mock laughter*) that is really funny. The Poles won a battle. Don't you know who won the war?

And to deflect: I am neither against nor for adding Poland. I just think brandishing random tidbits from history is pretty ridiculous, especially when it's done as in the quote above. (The Swedes won the war, for anyone who might need that spelled out.)
 
Then how do you explain the existance of Mali? ;)

Because otherwise Africa had only the Zulus, who were cool but if I'm not mistaken a very short lived military alliance not a culture at all. Timbuktu has some cool factor. Although I think Ethiopia should be there for sure.

And let's be fair MuXa, it wasn't the Russian armies that beat Napoleon, it was the Russian winter. You get credit for defeating the Nazis :goodjob:
 
I am sorry for my English.
And let's be fair MuXa, it wasn't the Russian armies that beat Napoleon, it was the Russian winter. You get credit for defeating the Nazis :goodjob:
I completely agree.
Russian winter is that that like Russian Unique Unit. But, this advantage too should to be able use. Kutuzov has managed, and Napoleon is not present.
By the way, Kutuzov one more great person.
 
Sorry, I haven't bothered readnig anything else in this thread apart from the title, but why a polska civ over an ottoman civ, or a scottish civ, or an irish civ?
 
Because otherwise Africa had only the Zulus,

That's why I added the criterion "amount of civs from the same area already in the game" to my list. :)

who were cool but if I'm not mistaken a very short lived military alliance not a culture at all. Timbuktu has some cool factor. Although I think Ethiopia should be there for sure.

Hmm, I think I understand what you mean, but I still think that "cool factor" is too vague to be a workable basis, be it for designing a game or for determining how Firaxians might think.

Btw, I agree with you upon the "cool factor" for Timbuktu. I don't know about other countries, but here in Germany Timbuktu is one of the best known African cities. The interesting detail is that while most Germany recognize "Timbuktu" as meaning "some strange place far away", many Germans who know the word do *not* know that the city actually exists. :)
 
Sorry, I haven't bothered readnig anything else in this thread apart from the title, but why a polska civ over an ottoman civ, or a scottish civ, or an irish civ?

Ottomans are in the expansion pack (they called them Turks this time), and the Celtic civ covers the Irish.

Hmm, I think I understand what you mean, but I still think that "cool factor" is too vague to be a workable basis, be it for designing a game or for determining how Firaxians might think.


Oh no that's the beauty of it. They picked civs with high name recognition and a cool reputation. Much easier than trying to apply some strict set of defined criteria. How much more significant were the Berbers who ruled Northern Africa and conquered Spain (or were part of the Muslim invasion of Spain, I'm not an expert here) than the brief and doomed Zulu rebellion? But the Zulus have a bigger reputation as ruthless African warriors, so they're in. It's like calling the Scandinavian civilization by their popular Viking name.
 
I am sorry for my English.

I completely agree.
Russian winter is that that like Russian Unique Unit. But, this advantage too should to be able use. Kutuzov has managed, and Napoleon is not present.
By the way, Kutuzov one more great person.

Kutuzov would be a good Great General. Does anyone have a list of the game's Great People? Zhukov has a good claim on greatest general in modern history, along with Rommel.

By the way, there is no need to apologize for your English. It is very understandable, and everyone here understands that we're not all native English speakers.
 
Poland will most likely not be added in a cIV expansion pack (if they make a second).

Mainly because there are many more greater civiliations that have not been added yet-

-Babylon
-Holland (Netherlands)
-Sumeria
-Portugal
-Austria

just to name a few.

Poland was not a big diffrerence in the world, i feel that not much would be taken away from the world if poland never existed (as opposed to someone like Rome, China, India, Babylon, etc. [no offense to poland, just a general statement, i would say the same about Mexico, Iran, Brazil, Peru etc.])
 
Poland was not a big diffrerence in the world, i feel that not much would be taken away from the world if poland never existed (as opposed to someone like Rome, China, India, Babylon, etc. [no offense to poland, just a general statement, i would say the same about Mexico, Iran, Brazil, Peru etc.])

I'm moving to Chicago in January. I hope not everyone there thinks like you!
 
Poland is minor and mostly a satilite of other civilizations. Hardly worth mentioning. Yet another instance of someone trying to get their minor country/civilisation/area into the game.
 
Yeah, ha ha (*mock laughter*) that is really funny. The Poles won a battle. Don't you know who won the war?

And to deflect: I am neither against nor for adding Poland. I just think brandishing random tidbits from history is pretty ridiculous, especially when it's done as in the quote above. (The Swedes won the war, for anyone who might need that spelled out.)


Willowmound, the whole thread is pretty ridiculous.

Started with "Poland is bestest there is", got more so with "Poland never done nothing, never", and has continued on in that vein since.

:D
 
It's interesting to hear a bit about Polish history though. I'll admit that as the grandson of Polish Jews I'm not full of warm feeling for the Old Country.
 
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