PH03: Happy Little Wonderland

[·Imhotep·]

I was so drawn to this game that I played my 15 yesterday night at 2 p.m. I then went to bed because I was too tired to compose a report - but it was not exhaustion due to excessive girl friend use ... So, this is what happened. I have made some decisions during my turns. You better like 'em, or I see myself as a candidate for the traditional stoning *already has visions of pholk, rex and Ozbenno as PFJ brothers with small heaps of stones ready*.

Only thing I did on the Preflight was MMing Moscow for hammers. In fact this did cut off one turn from the Great Wall, Moscow was at it's happiness cap anyway. Press Enter.



Our Scout wanders around in the nice and cozy countryside. Meet Barbara, the amazon warrior !



And this is Chuck. He was left alive until after the love fest, those amazon ladies always love to have cruspy meat off the bone as last part of the merrymaking.



Chuck and Barbara obviously have not heard yet from something like faith or other difficult metaphysical questions. They just have fun ! The inhabitants of proud St. Petersburg on the contrary...



A good ol' friend of Chuck and Barbara lives right next to our doorstep. "Hello Mr. Khan, this is Cathy speaking. I'd bet you never saw such a cultured lady in all your sad life...ready for some love the amazon-style ?"



continues...

 

[·Imhotep·]

In fact Barbara is so attractive (even with just half of the female attributes) that our Scout is drawn away from duty and gives in the pleasures of lust and sin. Alas that he has not thought of the consequences before...



Well, at least he had fun one time in his life. Meanwhile the citizens of St. Pete have found away to dig Bronze Ore ut of the ground and will try to do the same with the Gold. The only problems they could not solve is to bring the metals to town...



The tale of Boris the Scout who got a nice tête-à-tête with Barbara and afterwards was famous for his tasty ribs scared the citizens of Moscow so much that they piled all the stones that they could find on a long ridge. This is how they had it in mind:



Those amazons will never come inside now ! Said the men in Moscow and sighed, looking at their women... And Barbara sits on a hill, looks into the wide regions around Moscow and has a tear in her eye, thinking of all the joy Boris brought her. And ever her stomach grumbles...

 

[·Imhotep·]

Some wide view shots

The West



The North:



Our worthy possessions:



I've made a sign where I suggest our 3rd city. It is a great spot. It gets Wheat and Iron plus 5 hills with fresh water and a lot of forested grass land (yummy chop-chop !). This should be a production powerhouse once fully developed.

The decisions I made:

• I started the Stonehenge in St. Petersburg after investing 2 turns into a Settler. I didn't want to try a shot at it at first, but then I changed my mind. I already chopped a forest, another worker is ready for another chop. It is down to 9 turns, Animal Husbandry comes in 1 turn. The Worker already stands on the Cows. Pasture it, and I think we will very likely get the 'Henge. If not, it's not a big loss. We will get cash to fund our expansion then. After all I thought we want Great Priests too, at least one or two for the Shrines. With v1.61 obsolete Wonders retain their GPP value, so there is no loss in a fast Calendar research.
• I did not revolt to Judaism and Organized Religion yet. This had two reasons. 1) We were right into the Great Wall build and I didn't want to lose the Wonder with the Anarchy. 2) One of our neighbors is Buddhist, I didn't want to piss him off so early. Although converting would have advantages - 2 more happiness points with Temples and increased building production. Discuss !
• I went Priesthood > Animal Husbandry, but didn't start the Oracle yet. We can do it in Moscow with 15 turns on it after the Settler finishes in 2. I thought it was safe to delay it - we are relatively early with the tech, and I didn't want to delay Animal Husbandry. Next Player should go The Wheel and Oracle => Metal Casting or Writing > CoL > Oracle => CS.

Imhotep

 

[pholkhero]

good playing, Imhotep!! Good deal on the Great Wall ~ that's the first time i've built it.

i'm also real surprised we get Judaism as well.

We could build the Oracle at your suggested Novgorad ~ chop those forest grass and take CoL with it for our second religion ~ i don't think we can afford to wait for CS on Monarch.

We need to start spreading our religion and building the temples. If there's 3 ways to earn culture (wonders, artists/ga, and commerce), then i think we're going to need all three, but in either case, at this point, we need to start focusing on the top of the tech tree.

 

[pholkhero]

Pholkhero > on deck
Zophos >
Ozbenno >
Imhotep > just played
Rex > UP NOW

 

[Zophos]

Good turns, Imhotep! However, I did see a copy of the following memo circulating in Moscow after Boris' final report was received:

Spoiler :

MEMORANDUM

FROM: CINCLAND

TO: All Scouting Units

RE: Changes to Recommended First Contact Script

Based on reports from scouts in the western portion of the Empire, Central Command has made the following changes to the Recommended First Contact Script (Form 10596/A2), to be used when encountering an unknown party on scouting missions:

• Strike the words "Tasty Ribs" from paragraph 14, sentence 2. A misinterpretation of this phrase led to tragedy in a recent encounter. Instead, offer "Tasty BEEF Ribs". Central Supply will make beef ribs available to all scouting parties within the next few years.
• Add the following text in bold print at the bottom of the form: Under no circumstances should any member of a scouting party attempt a romantic liason with members of an unknown party. (This means YOU, Kirk!)

Please update your scripts immediately.

CINCLAND

Glad we got Judaism. We should definitely try for the Oracle, and take either CoL (for another religion), or Metal Casting (for forges/Engineer points). I'd suggest starting it ASAP, though. I get nervous about AIs taking it as I close in on 1000BC, but this crowd of opponents might not care as much. Before building the Oracle, it is probably worth revolting to OR and Judaism for the 25% hammer bonus.

As for WHERE to build it...I'm torn. It would be nice to get the 'henge in St. Pete, and the Oracle in Novgorod, but I'm worried about how fast we can build the Oracle in a brand-new city (maybe chopping like mad will still get it - thoughts?). If we miss Stonehenge, definitely build the Oracle in St. Pete. I would NOT put it in Moscow, even though it'll build fast, to avoid polluting the GPP pool there - we really want to get a town that can pump out at least a couple of GEs.

And I agree on tech path: Wheel->Pottery->Writing. Note that Writing is REQUIRED for Code of Laws, so we really have to get a move on if we want CoL as our Oracle tech. If not, Metal Casting is a very good choice, and will allow us to accelerate our GE production.

 

[pholkhero]

I imagine we should send the settler over with a couple workers and have the city go DIRECTLY for the Oracle w/chops ~

i also agree on keeping the GE pool clear in Moscow. For that reason, we should take Metal Casting w/the Oracle ONLY IF Conf has been founded. We're going to need the religions, so we might as well get them the easy way

can't we get writing via Priesthood? maybe go writing>wheel>pottery and insert Maths as we nearer completion of the Oracle.

 

[Zophos]

can't we get writing via Priesthood?

Yes, we can. I forgot that route entirely.

So...um...yeah. Since we have no barb worries, we don't need to hook up copper right away, and we're sending both the workers to chop the Oracle anyway, so Wheel won't do much for us ATM. Writing first, then Wheel->Pottery, then regroup and see where we are.

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

The save is visible. I'm up in a couple of SGs and I'm also "up" at work and home tonight. I won't play this tonight, but should be able to tomorrow.

 

[·Imhotep·]

Well, I disagree on the Oracle thing. It is true we have no Industrial opponent, but we don't know who may have Marble hooked up already or has beelined to the Oracle anyway. As for chopping the Oracle in Novgorod: That's near to impossible in a sensible timeframe. You get only 20 hammers per chop pre-Mathematics, and the Oracle needs 150 to finish. So it would be roughly 6 chops at the least. There is a lot of forest at the site, but we have too few workers to get the job done fast enough. Of course the city could work the Wheat and then the Iron or a Hill once it has grown, but I'd rather like to see the Oracle landed safe in Moscow. I also may add this thought: It is all nice with the clean GP lines in different cities - but have you worked out how long it takes us then to get ANY ? We are not Philosophical and do not own the Parthenon yet. The first GE will show up in about 45 turns, if we land the 'Henge he will be followed by a Great Priest. Sure, we could run an Engineer at Moscow once we got Metal Casting - but that accelerates the spawning not really much, given the fact that the required GPP will increase quite fast. Stacking GPP - and therefore some wonders - in a city seems inevitable to me at this early point of the game...

Imhotep

 

[Zophos]

Ok. Perhaps we should check the numbers.

Let's see...the Novgorod site is on a plains hill, and we could work the plains iron (forget growth for now) and have 4 hammers/turn. So Novgorod can build the Oracle in 13 turns + 5 chops, or 8 turns + 6 chops.

Six chops with two workers means three successive chops at 3 turns each, plus a turn per chop to move onto forest. So 12 turns plus however long it takes 'em to get in place. Ought to be about 3 turns of walking after they finish their current tasks for a total of 15 turns after the current builds. Call it 18 turns from now. That puts us at...around 800BC to get the Oracle. Risky.

Moscow can build it in 15 after the Settler completes in 2 turns, if I remember correctly. So, the timing is similar...unless we chop or whip at Moscow to accelerate the Oracle there. I can't fire up the save at work to check the possibility of building the Oracle in St. Pete, but I doubt that we can beat this time, even if we abandoned Stonehenge (which seems silly).

In addition, the disadvantage of trying it in Novgorod is that, if we miss, we've burned a bunch of forests and still don't have a Wonder. In Moscow, all we've wasted is turns, again, unless we chop/whip to accelerate it.

So where does that leave us?

1. Build the Oracle in Novgorod, and send both workers to chop like crazy. Finish ~800 BC.
2. Build the Oracle in Moscow w/o chops. Finish in 825 BC.
3. Build the Oracle in Novgorod, send both workers to chop like crazy, and whip a third worker in Moscow to chop also. Shaves off 3-4 turns, so finish ~900BC.
4. Build the Oracle in Moscow, but send one or both workers to chop also. With 2 chops, we shave off 4 turns (and I don't think we can get three chops in time). Finish ~925BC.
5. Build the Oracle in Moscow, send both workers to chop, and whip the last of it. Might shave another couple of turns off and finish ~975BC, but I'm not sure how many pop points we'd have to whip away.
6. I guess we could accelerate #4 and #5 another turn or two if the workers drop what they're doing and head to Moscow for chops RIGHT NOW. I haven't run the numbers on this, though.

In a SP game, I would roll the dice and go for #3, but it is a big risk. Luckily, I don't have to choose!

As for the GPP pools...I do think we'd be happy to get a couple of GEs, since I'm sure that we're going to found some high-commerce/low-production cities (say, up in the jungle). The later we wait, the more expensive the Wonders will be, and it'll take ages to get one in each of those cities w/o a GE. The long lead time to bake a GE was what led me to think of taking Metal Casting with the Oracle.

(BTW, if I seem wishy-washy in these discussions, or seem to repeat or contradict myself, it's just that I'm 'thinking out loud' and trying on all the options. I figure that you folks are more likely to point out mistakes in my thinking if I lay more of it out on the table, and I've always found the 'why' discussions in SGs I've read to be more illuminating than the 'what' discussions. But, if it's too spammy for anyone - or if you can't tell what I'm advocating - let me know and I'll distill more before posting. Same with turn reports. Feedback is welcome, as I'm still new to the SG thing.)

 

[pholkhero]

first off, f8ck spam! how else can we get to know each other if we DON'T spam, right?

secondly, remember we are at Normal speed so chops are faster than 1 per 3 turns w/2 workers. It may be only 3 turns for EACH worker. that changes things a bit, i think.

i agree w/Zophos and would take the gamble in an SP game and head for the Oracle in Novgorod ~ it just *feels* right, ya' know? w/that in mind, i'm officially "poo-pooing" Imhotep's wishy-washy typical overcautiousness ~ of course, this is coming from the guy who likes to miss wonders by mere turns so take THAT for what it's worth

also, remember Rex is up next, so he won't read what we write anyway b/c he's a big doosh so

 

[Zophos]

remember we are at Normal speed so chops are faster than 1 per 3 turns w/2 workers. It may be only 3 turns for EACH worker. that changes things a bit, i think.

That's how I was figuring it - three worker-turns per forest tile. No reason to put both workers on the same forest tile - each one chops three forests in quick succession, in parallel (to get a total of six chops), and it takes 12 turns total.

It's actually SLOWER if you have the workers double up, because you spend more worker-turns on moving into forest tiles. (Painful elaboration of this point available on request)

i'm officially "poo-pooing" Imhotep's wishy-washy typical overcautiousness

Well...at least I'll have company in the woodshed if we blow this.

also, remember Rex is up next, so he won't read what we write anyway b/c he's a big doosh

Rex, if you ARE reading: just remember, if you go for it, whip another worker in Moscow ASAP so that each one only has to chop twice in a row. I'm a lot more confident about getting the Oracle at 900BC than 800BC, for some reason.

 

[Ozbenno]

I agree that the Oracle in Novgorod "feels right".

Nice turns Imhotep, good to get Monotheism first and the Great Wall. I reckon Stonehenge is a good call as well (hopefully can get a GP out of it for religion or shrine).

Research wise I'd get writing, wheel and pottery done in any order but writing if we're a shot at CoL. If someone else founds Confucianism, then Oracle for Metal Casing for a specialist in Moscow.

I'd revolt into OR asap and send ole' KK a Jewish missionary, cause we all know how successful the Great Wall is at stopping a Mongol invasion!

 

[pholkhero]

Research wise I'd get writing, wheel and pottery done in any order but writing if we're a shot at CoL. If someone else founds Confucianism, then Oracle for Metal Casing for a specialist in Moscow.

I'd revolt into OR asap and send ole' KK a Jewish missionary, cause we all know how successful the Great Wall is at stopping a Mongol invasion!

Good compromise ~ if Conf is open, take CoL; if its FIDL, take Metal Casting.

good point, too Ozbenno, re: religion spread

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

Another day, another dollar, another chicken's worth of blood smeared on the walls to ward off the vengeful spirits of those I've damned. SSDD.

Before we get started, there's something I need to clear up. You're right, pholk, I didn't read any of the page and a half of you women debating where to put the Oracle.

Pholk: You think he likes me?
Ozzy: I don't know <giggle, giggle>. I heard Samantha say that he was gonna ask Jennifer to go with him.

Sheesh. . You'd think our "leader" might have grown a sack and and told us how it's gonna be. But no, as usual pholkheroine leaves it up to *me* to be the man around here and make the tough decisisons for him. So here goes. Take it or leave it. I don't give a fashizzle.

Timmy, you're a great guy. But you're young, unmarried, and still full of zest. Not the sort of qualities typically associated with world domination so your opinion is disregarded. Pholk, you've missed twenty-seven wonders in SGs with my by two or fewer turns. Ergo, you're opinion is worthless on this matter.

All others, I don't know you well enough to insult you so I'll just go and stick the frappin' Oracle in Novgorod-to-be and chop the ever lovin' bajeebus out of the forest to get it. If we fail, we fail. But fortune favors the bold and I'm about to make a cocktail, so phfffbbbttt!

Henge due in 9 up in Petrograd. That's great. Leave well enough alone. I'm sending all workers to novgorod ASAP and rushing the setler in Moscow.

They each have five turns of travel. Hmmm. That's a long time. Okay, I won't rush the settler as he'll still get there before the choppy choppy.

Press enter.

1360 and we husband our animals and start on writing.

1320 Change of plans? Henge BIFAL! So I started St. Pete on the Oracle. Turn counter says 19, but we can chop a lot of forests to get that down to a reasonable number.

1280 and IBT a barb archer attacked a fog-busting warrior in the SW that I didn't know was there. I suppose that means we have one fewer units to pay for, right guys?

In 1200 I put Novgorod where Timmy said so. Really, I'm just too lazy to see if there's a better site. I started it on The Pyramids as a place holder, really. I didn't want another warrior and I want the city to grow, so settlers and workers are off-limits. I could have put an obelisk monument, but ...eh...

In 1080 an infinite number of monkies stole an infinite number of typewriters from Brennus and taught us all that paper is for more than just wiping our tokhes (tuchis?)(Yiddish spelling is apparently non-standard.) CoL is too far away for any real run at the CS slingshot, but some very appealing options are available. When we get MY free tech, I say we go for Christianity. For now, I chose to research The Wheel.

Barbs are everywhere, BTW, so we might want to consider learning archery for Novgorod-outside-the-wall.

In 1000 BC, Novgorod's borders expand and we now have four hills, wheat and iron in the BFC. Not too shabby.

Okay, this *should* be the end of my set, but Oracle is two away and the suspense would kill me and I'm a greedy **** and Pholk said I could, and my father only had one testicle, and a girl beat me up in the third grade and she tied me to the flagpole and all the other kids laughed because they could see I had smurf underoos on.

So on I play...

Wheel comes in just in time for this beauty:

And here's the buffet:

Save's around here somewhere...

 

[Zophos]

Good turns, Rex. Good work on the Oracle in St. Pete, and we got some nice cash for the half-henge. And I'm sure you'll get to know us all well enough to insult us all soon.

FYI, the effects of the Great Wall expand as your cultural borders expand (even though the graphic doesn't - yes, it's a little goofy). So, Novgorod is just as safe from the barbs as good ol' Moscow.

Of course, with Theology under our belts, I am possessed by a most un-cultural-victory-like urge to go make sweet, sweet war on someone, but I will valiantly resist. I presume that Novgorod wound up as the Christian Holy City? If so, we could always build the shrine as the required Wonder in that city.

 

[Ozbenno]

Nice one Rex, Theology was the best choice for Oracling. Stonehenge is no loss and the 100% research cash is great.

We should still have a run at CoL, as its also a pre-requisite for Philosophy. Work on Pottery first maybe.

We might also take a breather on the wonder front and get a couple more cities out there and start building missionaries to spread the word to our heathen splitter unbrothers.

 

[·Imhotep·]

Timmy, you're a great guy. But you're young, unmarried, and still full of zest. Not the sort of qualities typically associated with world domination so your opinion is disregarded.

We're not going for domination - we're going for culture ! And there is no doubt that the opinion of a european burgeois is of more worth in this matter than the one of a guy whose success with girls and life merely comes from the size of the rest of his body .

Anyhow, you played a great turnset. Sad that my 'Henge plans didn't come true, but really cool that we got the Oracle. I guess it was simply a lot too late for the 'Henge - it was out there pretty quick. Good call on Theocracy and Christianity. Not only this is giving us our second religion - Theocracy is a tech the AI values highly. We might get some good techs for it later.

With Novgorod being the Christian Holy City it will pop borders quicker too, and the Oracle should get us at least 2 Great Priests. Hopefully our GE arrives just in time to finish the Pyramids...

I'm glad you like the location I chose for Novgorod. I can foresee a Heroic Epic there and the churning of endless streams of military...

Again, well played !

Imhotep

 

[pholkhero]

nice turns, good write-up, and the obligatory "f- you" for the insults ~

okay, w/that out of the way, it's too bad about the henge, but Oracle is jsut as good, and as imhotep points out, it nabs us another religion. I still think we should go for CoL as Ozbenno says, but Pottery for cottages is a higher priority, i think ~

also and again i agree w/Ozbenno ~ let's cool it for now on wonders and focus on the empire building and religion spreading/temple building.

Got it.