PH03: Happy Little Wonderland

Got it. AFAIK the Minaret and the University of Sankore are rendered useless when switching to Free Religion...

I had a rapid glance at the save now. I will wait for further discussion concerning our research goals and plans.
 
Re: Research & Plans

I'd think we want Democracy, so we can switch to Emancipation (to grow cottages fast in the big 3) and perhaps Universal Suffrage (extra hammers from all those towns to build culture or late-game wonders with). That path also unlocks Taj Mahal (at Nationalism) and Statue of Liberty (at Democracy), both of which would be great wonders to add to our collection.

In the big 3, we should slap down all the culture buildings we're missing (monasteries, walls/castles, remaining cathedrals, etc.). It's a shame we never built any Monuments - I know we were busy, but they'd have helped now.

I'm guessing we'll want to switch to Pacifism once we get most of the buildings (and our remaining required WWs) done, to get Artists a bit faster. And I suppose Caste System rather than Emancipation AFTER we've made lovely towns everywhere.

Hermitage needs to go in Novgorod (lowest culture/turn AND furthest behind). What NWs should go in the other two? Can't build Heroic Epic (no XP), so the only culture-producing NWs left are FP (+4), Globe (+6), NE (+4), Oxford (+4), plus Rushmore (+4) and Red Cross (+2) if we want to research for 'em (but why?).

That's all I can think of at the moment. Thoughts?
 
that's good thinking on the civic changes to maximize everything. I forget a lot of time about Nat'l Wonders and their culture. It really looks like this variant may work out. I didn't think it would simply b/c there are several/many cities that usually are mainly commerce producers.

Imhotep ~ will you be able to play/report before you go away for the weeend?
 
So, here is the report:

I started research into Constitution for the Democracy path, it is now 2 turns away.

Then this dude showed up:



I figured that we can make a trade like that any time later on too, so I denied it. However people want to have our knowledge quite badly:



Denied too, we want to keep the monopoly on Nationalism as long as possible. Of course we want the Taj Mahal ourselves ! I tried to get Gunpowder for another tech, but Churchill very well knows when a tech is worthless:



Same beakers in count, but I wouldn't have accepted myself if I was him. I tried to make the trade more tasty with some cash, but he wasn't in the mood to do us a favor.



However we should keep an eye on the tech trading, there are some good techs out there we may get. If possible, make an n-fer trade with Liberalism.

As lucky as I was with Islam spreading to Cuman itself as unlucky I were with the Christian Monk:



But at least I can say I popped another one™:



The religion thing:



Yakutsk needs Islam still - that was :smoke: on my part. I focused only on Cuman and didn't realise Yakutsk needed Islam too. After Islam spread without my doing to the city, I sent the 2 Islam missionaries I had abroad and spread the word in minor enemy cities. I've queued up another Islam guy to fix that. Cuman needs Christianity, with a Missionary being built already.

Our big 3 at 0% culture:



Our big 3 at 100% culture:



I decided on Globe Theatre in Moscow as it has the biggest potential to grow and therefore can use the Happiness. The Hermitage goes to Novgorod after finishing the Islamic Mosque. That leaves the Forbidden Palace for St. Petersburg. I started Sakae on the Taj Mahal, 26 turns away now. With a bit of chopping we should speed that up. I'm optimisatic to get the wonder there, no one has Nationalism yet.

Imhotep
 
Um...Imhotep? According to that screenshot, we're building an Islamic Mosque (the Cathedral equivalent) in Yaroslavl'. :nono: Not one of our big 3 culture cities, so that would be a Bad Thing. I think we've already got an Islamic Temple there, so Yaroslavl' should be off doing something else, and the Mosque should be going into Novgorod in place of the Bank.

Otherwise, good turns. I'm feeling better about pulling this off. :)

Ok...back to strategy.

Out of sheer morbid curiosity, I ran some numbers off the 1500 AD save (before Imhotep's turn). To get our target of 500 culture/turn, we need to get base culture (before multipliers) to 143 in Moscow & St. Pete (assuming 3 cathedrals and Free Speech, for a total +250% multiplier), and to 112 in Novgorod (assuming the additional +100% from Hermitage). Here's how it breaks down:

Note: I'm going to use the acronym CBSCCCH below, because I can't find a better way to describe Culture/turn Before Specialists, Commerce, Cathedrals, Civics, and Hammers. But now you know what I mean - basically culture from buildings, wonders, religion, and the Creative trait.

In 1500 AD, Moscow had 34 CBSCCCH, so we need another 109 base culture. Moscow has 10 cottages now, and can support 16 (!) cottages with its current food supply, most of them on river tiles, so there's no worries about making the target here, even without building culture or using specialists. With the two free Artists we can run (Mercantilism plus Statue of Liberty) at 6 cpt each, we're golden.

St. Pete had 38 CBSCCCH, and needed another 105. Currently 7 cottages (not all worked). Additional cottages are a bit harder to come by, but I counted 11 workable with the current food supply, and somewhere between 10 and 13 river tiles workable. That totals...90 commerce at best. Add in two artists gets to 102, so we'll be a tiny bit shy of 500/turn all-in. Doing 'build culture' will probably put us over the top.

Lastly, there's Novgorod. In 1500AD, it had 28 CBSCCCH, and needed another 84 to hit the goal. It only has 4 (!) cottages at the moment, but can support up to 14 with current food, if we cottage over all the grassland hills that are currently mined. 10-12 cottages is sufficient to give us enough commerce (depending on how many river tiles are included), even without our two free artists, so we ought to be fine here, too.

Note that all these numbers assume we can keep the culture slider at 100%, and we're currently losing upwards of 80 gold/turn at that level. So, ironically, we might be wanting one or two Great Merchants more than Great Artists. The free one from Economics is gone already, and I have no idea if we can generate one anywhere in the Empire, but it's worth looking at. Or, if we can get a Prophet for a shrine, that would help immensely, too. And we SHOULDN'T switch to Free Religion at all (in spite of the minor culture boost), because it'll negate the Minaret.

Also note that we need to get some workers to the Big 3 to start cottaging everything in sight, and we should switch to Emancipation ASAP to grow them to towns in 35 turns rather than 70. Trading for Printing Press seems like a good move, too.
 
Sh*t ! The next player should change the Mosque in Yaroslavl' of course. Novgorod has an Islamic Mosque already. What was I thinking ? Guess the love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind... :smoke: :D

Imhotep
 
·Imhotep· said:
What was I thinking ?
I'm guessing, "Hmm...one of the religion buildings is lit up. Guess I should build it."

Kinda like I've done half a dozen times already...right before I remember that a synagogue is a cathedral rather than a temple and go back and change it. :hammer2:

No harm done, in any case.
 
So who's up in this fine piece of machinery...oh, that'd be me! :salute: I shall endeavor to do my best, comrads :salute:

Roster:
Pholkhero > Raquetball Weekly's sexiest man alive (who is on deck in this game)
Zophos > Philo zophos the love of zee learning
Ozbenno > Somewhere in Australia, just waking up (lazy bastard)
Imhotep > Just played (according to Sid's suggestions)
Rex > About to lay down some culture lumber
 
Nice spot Zophos on the mosque. I wouldn't have noticed that. I'd start chopping on the Taj.

Also, see no reason for not trading Liberalism for Gunpowder, as that's one of the techs we need. I'd also trade it away for cash as well to everyone, as we want to get those +ve diplo modifiers up (and the cash is nice too).
 
good turns Immy ~ and good catch Zophos, and thanks for the number crunching!! MVP = Zophos :clap:

Rex, UP NOW and aware ~

[ i've never seen these smilies :bowdown: :run: ]


RW's sexiest man, signing off. Stay classy CFC.
 
I just played. However, I screwed my self and lost both my screenies and notes. (I remapped my My Documents directory to a network drive that Civ can't follow so I lose all my saves, screenies, custom assets, etc. directories.) I will replay tomorrow after I fix it.
 
I will be OoP the whole next week, so please skip me where ever I'm up. If I should be able to play unlooked-for I'll say so. Have a nice time !

Imhotep
 
you too. Vacation or . . . Oktoberfest? hahaha :lol:

or perhaps, you're leaving to escape oktoberfest?
 
Well as it turns out I did *not* fix the screen shots so I have nothing pretty to show you. However, I did take notes on paper this time so I didn't lose those too.

On to the game. Rest assured my very first action when I open this game was to undo the calamity of our knuckleheaded friend. Yaroslavl' is no longer making an Islamic mosque. Done. But on those lines, let's look at the rest of our cities.

Moscow is size seventeen and unhealthy by two. It's one of our big three culture cities and it has a Jewish temple, a Christian temple and cathedral, and and Islamic temple. It needs a Jewish synagogue and it needs an Islamic mosque. It's wonder is the great wall of...er..Moscow.

Saint Petersburg is our second big city. It's size fourteen and has a Jewish temple and synagogues, a Christian temple and cathedral, and an Islamic temple. It's wonder is the oracle. It is also the religious capital of Judaism worldwide however it does not yet have the temple of Salomon.

Our final big city is Novgorod at size fifteen. It has a Jewish temple and synagogue, a Christian temple, and an Islamic temple and mosque. It's wonder is the hanging gardens. It is the Christian capital but lacks the church of the nativity.

Now I'll quickly recap our support group:

Rostov has the university of sankore and has all three of its temples. Yaroslavl' has the Sistine chapel, all three of its chapels, is the capital of islam, but lacks the shrine. Yekaterinburg has all three of its temples and has the spiral minaret. Yakutsk needs Islam and has no wonder. Sakae needs a Jewish temple and is working on the Taj Mahal. Our newest city is Cuman. It needs all three temples and needs Christianity. It also has no wonder.

So let's press enter now, huh?

In 1555, Saint Petersburg completes an Islamic monastery and begins a bank. Novgorod finishes a bank and begins working on a market. Rostov finishes a Christian missionary and begins working on a university. Yekaterinburg wraps up a long bow and begins a Jewish missionary.

In 1560, constitution comes in and I began researching economics. I did not make the switch to representation. In Yaroslavl', we finish a Christian monastery and start a university. And over in Yakutsk a longbow appears and a university is started.

1565. Yekaterinburg completes a Jewish missionary and begins a bank.

1570. Novgorod completes a market and starts on the Hermitage. It's the least of our big three cities and could use the 100 percent culture boost more than either of them. Also a missionary spreads Christianity in Cuman.

In 1575, a missionary spreads Judaism in old sarai.

In 1580, by the grace of god, I pressed enter. Twice, because 1585 was more of the same ****.

In 1590, economic came in and I went for corporation. Again, I did not switch civics. It's due in six and I picked it so that we can put wall street in one of the our smaller cities. That same year Cyrus demanded drama. It's only 483 beakers and I decided to give in for diplomatic sake.

Absolutely nothing happened in 1595. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. (Or Pholk)

Finally, in 1600, Saint Petersburg finished off a bank and started a market. Rostov finished a university and started an Islamic missionary. Yekaterinburg completed a bank and started a longbow.

That was the end of my set. Some things to note:

1. We have all the religions we need an our cities (edit: Yakutsk needs Islam). We could spread our religions to other cities, but we have no shrines to give us money for them. However, we're doing quite well financially (+11 @ 70%) so I say screw the missionaries and bolster our defenses a bit.

2. All open land in oul big three cities has now been cottaged. I have not yet torn up any farms for forests for their sake.

3. We've put 560 hammers into the Taj Mahal, which only needs 700 total. I also have about four workers currently chopping forests just outside of Sakae to speed things up.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/85158/PH03_AD-1600.CivWarlordsSave
 
01. Moscow: Great Wall; needs Jewish Syn; Islamic Mosque
02. Saint Petersburg: Oracle; needs Islamic Mosque, Temple of Solomon
03. Novgorod: Hanging Gardens; Chritian Cathedral, Church of the Nativity
04. Rostov: univ of sankore; 3 temples
05. Yaroslavl': Sistine chape; 3 temples; could use Islamic shrine;
06. Yekaterinburg: Spiral Minaret; 3 temples
07. Yakutsk: NO Wonder; needs Islam, NO temples
08. Sakae: (Taj Mahal); needs a Jewish temple
09 Cuman: NO Wonder; needs Christianity; NO temples

:hatsoff: to Rexxie for this

That's also a good point about the Statue of Liberty & Democracy. We can hold off on Corporation until afterwards. Oh, what I wouldn't give for a Great Engineer for that!! We also will only need Rifiling, too, and that will be that.

Roster:
Pholkhero > UP NOW
Zophos > on deck
Ozbenno >
Imhotep >
Rex > just played

I've got it and will start correcting Rex's mistakes in a bit. Report later today.
 
Sorry about corp. I honestly couldn't think straight when I made that decision. 1) I forgot that Wall Street is a national wonder and doesn't count. 2) I forgot about Statue of Liberty. 3) I forgot Pholk was after me and too :weed: to fix my late-night mistakes.
 
Okay, I look around adn don't change much. Corp is only 3 turns away so i figure, let's grab finish it up. With the GA from the Taj in a few turns (whenver those chops come in) we'll be in a GA and good for research!

In 1605, Novgorod finishes the Hermitage.
1605novlj9.jpg

Check out the culture output now. Nov is highest at 0% culture.

1610, no less than 4 chops finish up at Sakae!
1610tajsakaekq6.jpg

The Golden Age of Russia commences as we near the birth of our democracy. I direct research to Printing Press. Done in 4, Demo in 11 total.

I send an Islamic missionary west to Yakutsk and he fails!!
1615yakutskfailureod6.jpg

At this time, i noticed that our neighbors were all Hindu! When did that happen?!? :eek: Well, we need to start sending out those Missionaries, so i started spamming Jewish Miss's. I finally remembered to build another Islamic one towards the end of my set, and he's now at Yakutsk.

In 1620, Cyrus comes by with an offer:
1620cyrsusobsu8.jpg

I accept for now.

Nothing else of interest happens in my set except a Great Prophet is born! I sent him to St Pete:
1640tipusultanjw6.jpg


St Pete is the Jewish Holy City and our leading commerce city!
1645solomongy9.jpg

With the Temple of Solomon now built, this will give us a nice little commerce AND culture boost. We also should build Wall Street here.

Here's the fruits of our missionary efforts so far:
1635judaismqt2.jpg

1645samarkandmo6.jpg

I have 3 more Jewish MIss's on the road in "GOTOs" to cities for now in Mongolia and Carthage.

At the end of my set, here's the culture figures.

First at 0% culture:
1650culture00ys2.jpg


Here at 100%:
1650culturemaxmn7.jpg

NOtice the change once all those mature cottages are used for culture in Mosocw!

We only need two more Cathedral-type buildings, and Islam-in-Yakutsk is the only city missing a religion. Also, Cuman is a CRAP city, but with all those forests, we can chop the Statue there, hopefully, in no time. And that'll be it. Democracy, you can see, is done in 3 turns. We should consider our civic options, and head for Rifling. We're nearing hte homestretch.

Here's an Overview shot of our great Empire:



Roster:
Pholkhero > just played
Zophos > UP NOW
Ozbenno > on deck
Imhotep >
Rex >

Save is the OVerview Pic Above :goodjob:
 
Ok...refresh my memory. Why is Rifling the next goal? I thought we needed State Property for our 9th and final Wonder (Kremlin - Statue is the 8th, right?), though I haven't yet taken it upon myself to check if there are any others we could get faster. I'll take a quick scan before my set.

Oh, right. 'Got it', and should be able to play turns tonight.
 
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